Joined: Mar '08
Location: Australia
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1158
does online cheating happen,we all wonder,we get beat get called with junk,lose,say its bs,and think people are cheating,but at the end of the day,if you good enough you never wonder about it,i used to think it was happening,but its only beacause of the way we as players play the game that makes the difference,not folding when we know we are beat,calling with junk or i need a miracle cards,bluffing,raising with nothing,i dont care calls,the list goes on.so if we lose money its our own fault.we only cheat ourselves.online cheating has happenedd but site management was involved,but if we play online we are at the sites mercy.so be it.so the answer is,yes it happens if you own the site but we have to take there word they aint ripping us of anyway,so have fun and enjoy online poker,beats playing monopoly anyway.
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Italy
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 411
Finally someone tha understands how it works! It's the player that makes the difference in the long range. I hope everybody reads thismessage and quit complaining
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 42 (F)
Posts: 314
Yeah you're completely right. in the beginning I also was thinking what the *** . But then again I beat more than once an AA hand with much lower cards
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 7
If you own pokertracker and look at the starting hands you got and their winning percentage, you will see it all works out. The only cheating wich occurs is collusion, but it doesn't happen alot and it definitely doesn't bother me.
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
I don't know how any of you can say cheating doesn't ossur online. There are bots on just about every site, people collude at tables, disconnect protection abuse the list goes on.
The hitting cards aspect is player based but pokertracker does not lie. My premium hands are severely skewed in a negative direction. How is it a fair representation when As are a winning hand only 57% of the time? It isn't. In situations where I should be winning 4 out of 5 times I am only winning less than 3 of those. Is this a fair representation of the math behind poker?
For those who are undoubtedly going to say that my sample size is too low to matter this is based on about 200K+ hands.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Wow pokerpaul198 I thought it was over a small sample you were complaining but only winning with AA 57% of the time over 200K hands sounds brutal. I "recently" made a new database so I only got 44,6K hands where I got AA 216 times and won 95,37% of the time.
In pure math AA win 75% of the times HU if went to showdown.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by GeneYuss: I don't think any hand has 25% chance against aces.
Best i have found are middle suited connectors. Like 76s or 87s. They have around 23% equity if none of the aces is of their suit. These are hands that hit completly different flops than aces. AK on the other hand has just over 8% equity.
Joined: May '08
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1017
hey peoples,cheating hmmm...I would say that you're right about some stuff here about the cheating but it happens and it's not hard to miss, but it happens more then any one wants to really now.........But if you play the best you can,and do the best you can with what you got, you can still win........and the more I learn about poker, the more I understand the game..........the better, I used to wonder why I could never do well,in the games i would play in, I was the biggest fish at the table every time............I would be asked to go play poker with friends just to find out they just wanted to win my money,cause really i sucked. I didn't now a thing about poker,I really started hating the game,but I also knew that that was where the money was,I just had to understand the game. Well that didn't happen until not so long a ago,I used to think online poker was rigged and all that other stuff,people think about poker that really don't understand it. See know I see the light,poker can be fun,can be very profitable,and can give you the life we all want,but the key to getting that is understanding the game,really getting it,recently after i saw the light I'll say things have been different for me,now i win, i make final tables more often,if things go really well i make 2 or 3 final tables a day maybe even win the game,now there are days things just don;t go well,when that happens i walk away from the computer for the rest of the day, take my mind of the game,take a walk or some thing if i lose three tourneys in a row or get nocked out or just get a bad beat i walk away, There are times i come across people cheating colluiding with each other,or even the play a bot,when these things happen i make it known that i'm on the cheating,i say some thing,to the players,or if i come across a bot i watch the plays it plays,they can be fun if you can spot them,take them for every thing....... ......just watch they're programers uasaully not to far away....but they can be beat.......as for they other cheaters usaully if you the site has live support just inform them give the players names and if can copy the chat text that would be good.....there's one site i wondered about alot (P.S) but even there if you can get the patteren down you can make a profit there......watch the cards usually if you get an ace some lese doe's to or even 3.....but money and lots of it can be made there...just trying to get the pattern down trying out some new things they seem to be working...so far i've learned witch cards to keep and witch ones are dangerous,which ones might be good...still working on that one but,I lost lots of money there,over the past few months but a friend told me watch the cards don't play every good hand....just watch the pattern he said you'll get it.....but he cashes out every week so he must know some thing......I tried it started learning which cards to through away and which ones to keep.....well enough said....
For those who are undoubtedly going to say that my sample size is too low to matter this is based on about 200K+ hands.
200k hands is still not enough to expect a statistical outcome. You need to play some millions of hands before You can expect the stats to represent the math behind the game.
How do You play Aces. I found that only few players are able to fold aces once they got involved in a pot, even though it is kind of obvious that someone got a better hand. This can make the stats be far worse than You would expect them to be.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by kraemer:
For those who are undoubtedly going to say that my sample size is too low to matter this is based on about 200K+ hands.
200k hands is still not enough to expect a statistical outcome. You need to play some millions of hands before You can expect the stats to represent the math behind the game.
How do You play Aces. I found that only few players are able to fold aces once they got involved in a pot, even though it is kind of obvious that someone got a better hand. This can make the stats be far worse than You would expect them to be.
Its difficult to fold aces offcourse. When just 1 caller its even more difficult to fold. When 2 callers or more you probably didnt make a big raise or just bad luck with 3 monstershands.....
You can limp with aces but only in early position hoping some1 raise. but i always raise with aces no mather what position.
For those who are undoubtedly going to say that my sample size is too low to matter this is based on about 200K+ hands.
200k hands is still not enough to expect a statistical outcome. You need to play some millions of hands before You can expect the stats to represent the math behind the game.
How do You play Aces. I found that only few players are able to fold aces once they got involved in a pot, even though it is kind of obvious that someone got a better hand. This can make the stats be far worse than You would expect them to be.
Its difficult to fold aces offcourse. When just 1 caller its even more difficult to fold. When 2 callers or more you probably didnt make a big raise or just bad luck with 3 monstershands.....
You can limp with aces but only in early position hoping some1 raise. but i always raise with aces no mather what position.
Raising with AA is the best way to go. No reason to let others get free draws.
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 188
Posted by miclaxton:
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by kraemer:
For those who are undoubtedly going to say that my sample size is too low to matter this is based on about 200K+ hands.
200k hands is still not enough to expect a statistical outcome. You need to play some millions of hands before You can expect the stats to represent the math behind the game.
How do You play Aces. I found that only few players are able to fold aces once they got involved in a pot, even though it is kind of obvious that someone got a better hand. This can make the stats be far worse than You would expect them to be.
Its difficult to fold aces offcourse. When just 1 caller its even more difficult to fold. When 2 callers or more you probably didnt make a big raise or just bad luck with 3 monstershands.....
You can limp with aces but only in early position hoping some1 raise. but i always raise with aces no mather what position.
Raising with AA is the best way to go. No reason to let others get free draws.
Wow so I know I am playing my As correctly because I do all these things and I can fold them when there is a reason to suspect I am beat. But when I get my money in against underpairs I expect my As to hold up. When I get my money in against Arag I expect my As to hold up. I am not talking about places where the person can simply board 2 pair and beat me.
------------ It must be 6 handed cause like you said GeneYuss no random hand has 25% chance of winning vs AA it's only the best hands vs AA that got around that like 67s/78s
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
As i said in an earlier post 87s or 76s have around 23% equity. But this is calculated for preflop all-ins. In real play it is unlikely that a player with these hands will continue on a KJ7 flop. And so miss the chances where he might hit 2pair or trips on turn or river. So the chances of these hands are actually a bit lower.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Posted by shokaku: As i said in an earlier post 87s or 76s have around 23% equity. But this is calculated for preflop all-ins. In real play it is unlikely that a player with these hands will continue on a KJ7 flop. And so miss the chances where he might hit 2pair or trips on turn or river. So the chances of these hands are actually a bit lower.
Easy now soldier....if you read complete post you will see me saying 67s/78s are the best hands vs AA and I was talking about "pure math" if went to showdown, we all know that AA wins more often if it doesn't go to showdown....pretty obv since there are less cards for your opponent to hit. Which is also the reason that I win aprox 95% with my AA's
