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i want my 10 mobpoints so i will try to say something poker related in this wonderful thread- there is no right and no wrong way to play poker, ultimately if you are winning in the long run you can keep on playing only 26o and folding the rest. sure it's frustrating to lose, even more when ahead, or when you have AA's and get fcuked of by 26o dude... but then- this is a fcukin game of luck. if you want to get rewarded for your efforts better go and start a business or become a politic (where you are rewarded for doing something and for doing nothing at all...)
This is normal occurrence for me to get knocked out with the best hand in freerolls I don't take it to seriously if you run AQ vs suited connectors ten times you will be ahead and win more then lose luck is a big factor and what hits on the flop if Daniel Negrenu can crack AA with AQ in a major live event you are better of shoving it in freerolls.
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Posted by vic75: This is normal occurrence for me to get knocked out with the best hand in freerolls I don't take it to seriously if you run AQ vs suited connectors ten times you will be ahead and win more then lose
only if all in preflop, and only 6 times out of the ten
I don't really understand the call on the flop, with bottom pair without a kicker, against the pre-flop agressor. You figured he had AK or AQ, but surely there are pocket pairs in his range that almost all beat you. So you are only beating AK and maybe AJ at this point. As for implied odds, only a 4 or a 5 helps you, that is 5 outs, that only gives you about 10% chance to hit something on the turn, so you need at least potentially win about 5000 chips to call a 540 bet, pinotte did not have that many chips. Sure you fold if you don't hit anything, but the point is you paid a lot to find out.
That being said I don't know why you should be called out for it either. Even if you called an all-in pre flop with 72o. Why would this upset anyone, we see far worse hands all the time. I know I play worse hands than that on a regular basis; please don't confirm this
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Posted by marqis: I don't really understand the call on the flop, with bottom pair without a kicker, against the pre-flop agressor. You figured he had AK or AQ, but surely there are pocket pairs in his range that almost all beat you. So you are only beating AK and maybe AJ at this point. As for implied odds, only a 4 or a 5 helps you, that is 5 outs, that only gives you about 10% chance to hit something on the turn, so you need at least potentially win about 5000 chips to call a 540 bet, pinotte did not have that many chips. Sure you fold if you don't hit anything, but the point is you paid a lot to find out.
That being said I don't know why you should be called out for it either. Even if you called an all-in pre flop with 72o. Why would this upset anyone, we see far worse hands all the time. I know I play worse hands than that on a regular basis; please don't confirm this
Pretty much all correct.
My issue is with the manner of the post.
OP> you suck really bad, no respect me> I disagree, here is why (enter all my thoughts) OP> nope u just suck me> why OP> no idea
------------ Oh and I stand by my point, that if OP works out how he played it badly, he will be a better player for it. Hell I did enough blogs on it!
Edited by IceQueenAce (14 February 2016 @ 22:49 GMT)
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Posted by IceQueenAce: Fine, be a twat about it. Come back tomorrow when you are being less of a d**k.
No need for that young lady, ( or young man if this is your fella ) . A bit of respect for your elders please. What you did in that hand is something i would do so it must be wrong. To be honest i would have just called it down though.
My two cents here is everytime somebody tries to explain/analize/explore hands or strategy on a fee-fckin-roll is exactly the time when I logout of this forum, get up from my laptop and call it a day...
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Posted by pinotte: You are just making me laugh with your implied pre flop odds which you could not know before the cards are open.
Your plan is like any other of your kind suited i go at any price and i will win.
Your call on the flop with an under pair i suppose that was a good play.
You just are one of those suited maniacs which got lucky and got me out.
And with your big stack including mine you did not made it i suppose you got sucked out by another donkey.
This is what i think of you and have no respect.
Slow down pinotte . Did you forget my threat crap card. Even crap card we need to play if want to win. Moreover suited connector, is properly to be played ! Just when we play it and how. I also often out from tourney cause did like you. Sometime we should give up ( you hit nothing on flop ) wish you could understand discuss at this threat and getting better next time. Good luck !
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Posted by pinotte: Marqis just told you that you did not play a good hand and you said pretty much correct.
Please read the post again, because he didn't say anything of the sort.
He said that he felt I played the flop call wrong. And I stand by my point that it wasn't that far off. It wasn't an auto-fold to your bet given the read I had on you and the story I was taking (that you missed and were protecting ace high).
He didn't mention the pre-flop call, nor how I managed to get every single one of your chips on the turn.
He also says he doesn't see why I should be called out on it.
And plenty of people here have said they would have done the same thing.
Posted by pinotte:However you continue to say that i was the wrong and you are the best so be it you are the best and i am a lousy poker player.
I didn't. I didn't say anything of the sort.
But you are so hung up on 'omg you really suck I have no respect for you!!!' that you have missed a few things, so let me point them out again.
1) You were ONLY 58% favourite preflop. 2) You only bet big when you were 20% chance of winning.
3) You are being results orientated. Being like this wont improve your game. Do you honestly think you played the hand absolutely perfectly? I don't. And I have suggested you look at why you didn't play it perfectly. Then next time you could play it better and maybe I wont even be in that pot. Because the only way you will get better and understand the game better, is if you stop being butthurt and analylize the hand properly and see what you could do differently.
4) You said you didn't realise I was someone who played low suited connectors. What exactly DID you think I had? Why? What could I have that YOU were beating that I was going to call with? Because as point 3, if you don't start asking yourself these things, you wont improve.
5) You called me out on a hand you were unhappy with. Even though I have given away on this thread way more information to my opponents now than I should have (I should have just ignored the thread) about my play, I took the time to try and explain WHY I made the play that I did. My call on the flop (even if the numbers were wrong), was for a reason. I didn't have to do that. The least you could do is not be such a d**k about it. Try replying in the same way because THAT is the right thing to do.
6) It is just a freeroll, I am just a freeroll player. Yet I was able to put you on a specific range very accurately. Ask yourself why, you might learn something about yourself.
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Posted by teddybears73:
Posted by IceQueenAce: Fine, be a twat about it. Come back tomorrow when you are being less of a d**k.
No need for that young lady, ( or young man if this is your fella ) . A bit of respect for your elders please. What you did in that hand is something i would do so it must be wrong. To be honest i would have just called it down though.
It is me, not my fella.
(And look at the post I was replying to, to see why I reacted like that)
------------
Posted by bowie1984: My two cents here is everytime somebody tries to explain/analize/explore hands or strategy on a fee-fckin-roll is exactly the time when I logout of this forum, get up from my laptop and call it a day...
Why?
A hand against someone who I play every week and whose game I know pretty well.
Just because it is a freeroll doesn't mean that there is no strategy in it. I am not the sort of person who just bets blindly in ANY game.
------------
Posted by marqis:
As for implied odds, only a 4 or a 5 helps you, that is 5 outs, that only gives you about 10% chance to hit something on the turn, so you need at least potentially win about 5000 chips to call a 540 bet, pinotte did not have that many chips. Sure you fold if you don't hit anything, but the point is you paid a lot to find out.
Just to add to this, it was 80/20% on the flop.
So (if my reads are correct and I can guarantee that I get his whole stack in on turn): 4 times he takes 500 chips off of me on the flop = 2000 1 time I take his whole stack which is =3600
I was big stacked too and had a lot of play in my stack
Edited by IceQueenAce (15 February 2016 @ 08:04 GMT)
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Wow! I love this thread.
I have a couple of comments and a couple of observations, one for each of IQA and PINOTTE.
I acknowledge the comments and views of all posters in this thread, which goes towards supporting my comments.
Poker etiquette is simply that. We cannot expect opponents to play how we ourselves play. That is why poker is so fantastic.... Just don't get hung up on opponents always doing the right thing. It has oft been said that to win poker you have to make the wrong move (according to what etiquette expects) at the right time.
Early in a game, when the blinds are relatively low when compared to your stack, don't be tight.... Float around and get stuck in to make opportunities!
IQA...... Your calls preflop and on the flop is an interesting one as you had PINOTTE on AK/AQ. It feels like you were chancing it a little bit, but had a 50/50 decision to make and went for it. I think this I what is getting to PINOTTE as those moves don't comply with etiquette!
PINOTTE...... Your call all in after IQA raised you on the turn? What had you got her on to think your QQ was winning and good enough to beat the raise ?
I think there is much for you both ( and the rest of us ) to learn from this hand, but maybe PINOTTE a little more for you in terms of development (it has certainly given me a lot to think about). We should always be learning all the time.
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Posted by damosk: Wow! I love this thread.
I have a couple of comments and a couple of observations, one for each of IQA and PINOTTE.
I acknowledge the comments and views of all posters in this thread, which goes towards supporting my comments.
Poker etiquette is simply that. We cannot expect opponents to play how we ourselves play. That is why poker is so fantastic.... Just don't get hung up on opponents always doing the right thing. It has oft been said that to win poker you have to make the wrong move (according to what etiquette expects) at the right time.
Early in a game, when the blinds are relatively low when compared to your stack, don't be tight.... Float around and get stuck in to make opportunities!
IQA...... Your calls preflop and on the flop is an interesting one as you had PINOTTE on AK/AQ. It feels like you were chancing it a little bit, but had a 50/50 decision to make and went for it. I think this I what is getting to PINOTTE as those moves don't comply with etiquette!
PINOTTE...... Your call all in after IQA raised you on the turn? What had you got her on to think your QQ was winning and good enough to beat the raise ?
I think there is much for you both ( and the rest of us ) to learn from this hand, but maybe PINOTTE a little more for you in terms of development (it has certainly given me a lot to think about). We should always be learning all the time.
I completely agree with you mostly, though I don't understand by 'poker etiquette'
The meaning for me is etiquette being things like not slow playing, not splashing the pot, be a good winner/loser etc. I think maybe you mean something different or?
As for implied odds, only a 4 or a 5 helps you, that is 5 outs, that only gives you about 10% chance to hit something on the turn, so you need at least potentially win about 5000 chips to call a 540 bet, pinotte did not have that many chips. Sure you fold if you don't hit anything, but the point is you paid a lot to find out.
Just to add to this, it was 80/20% on the flop.
So (if my reads are correct and I can guarantee that I get his whole stack in on turn): 4 times he takes 500 chips off of me on the flop = 2000 1 time I take his whole stack which is =3600
I was big stacked too and had a lot of play in my stack
It's only 80/20 on the flop if you're all-in, and get to see 2 cards without another bet on the turn/river. You pay 540 chips to see just 1 card on the turn, with 5 outs. That is only about 10%. If you don't hit you'll most likely face another bet making it more expensive/having to fold without seeing the river.
This is a common misconception about the rule of 2 and 4, figuring your chances are 4*number of outs with 2 cards to go. This is only in all-in situations, where you don't face another bet.
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wow if you pay attention to this thread,you may learn some thing I really can't say to much cause I play like that,I personally think she played it perfectly,got a good read,she knew what she was doing,it;s just to bad it was pinotte,who was involved in this hand. I think both of our players a good,both played the same game,just a bit differently
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Posted by marqis:
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by marqis:
As for implied odds, only a 4 or a 5 helps you, that is 5 outs, that only gives you about 10% chance to hit something on the turn, so you need at least potentially win about 5000 chips to call a 540 bet, pinotte did not have that many chips. Sure you fold if you don't hit anything, but the point is you paid a lot to find out.
Just to add to this, it was 80/20% on the flop.
So (if my reads are correct and I can guarantee that I get his whole stack in on turn): 4 times he takes 500 chips off of me on the flop = 2000 1 time I take his whole stack which is =3600
I was big stacked too and had a lot of play in my stack
It's only 80/20 on the flop if you're all-in, and get to see 2 cards without another bet on the turn/river. You pay 540 chips to see just 1 card on the turn, with 5 outs. That is only about 10%. If you don't hit you'll most likely face another bet making it more expensive/having to fold without seeing the river.
This is a common misconception about the rule of 2 and 4, figuring your chances are 4*number of outs with 2 cards to go. This is only in all-in situations, where you don't face another bet.
Thanks, but I know the rule of 4 and 2, and that wasn't really my point.
My point, was regardless of odds etc in this particular case, I could take the hit of 500 chips and still fold and still be heavily stacked.
But lets go with your way. If I am 10% then: 9 times out of 10 I lose 500 = 5000 chips 1 time out of 10 I win 3600
Now, we think his range is AK/AQ but lets add in AJ/AT which i'm beating and maybe jj/tt that I am not beating (but that im fairly sure he doesn't have). That is 3 times out of the 6 (50% of the time) that I am ahead even without the turn card, whilst the calc above is if he always has hit the Q. I don't think I am prepared to say what I think would have happened had he had tt/jj and I missed, but let's say I don't think he would be pot committed on the turn if he did.
That isn't that completely horrible, even if the odds don't quite stack up. I know its rough cause its 'as played' and things could have gone differently.
You also have to consider that I had a specific read on a specific player and was playing the player way more than the cards, in the belief that 1) he was protecting ace high and 2) I would take his stack if I hit.
I am off the opinion this hand went as it did but could have gone the other way fairly easily and if he didn't have AQ on that turn, we wouldn't have seen a river.
I feel like I am over analysing now just to defend myself for what at worst was just a slightly -ev play.
Can I have your thoughts on:
a) my preflop play and b) Pinotte's play through all 3 streets.
------------
Posted by xxxpokerxxx1: wow if you pay attention to this thread,you may learn some thing
I hope so, or else why do we bother playing if we don't want to learn. I was tempted to post this on 2+2 and may still do so, but it is quite elitest there and im not a fan of the attitude of some.
Posted by xxxpokerxxx1:I really can't say to much cause I play like that,
Maybe I got my figures a little wrong but I would make this play again if I thought the timing was right for it.
Posted by xxxpokerxxx1:I personally think she played it perfectly,got a good read,she knew what she was doing,it;s just to bad it was pinotte,who was involved in this hand.
I don't think there is such thing as a perfect hand. (Edit: I doubt I would have played these cards in this way against someone else, it was a specific play against a specific villain)
Posted by xxxpokerxxx1:I think both of our players a good,both played the same game,just a bit differently
I know I am good
Edited by IceQueenAce (15 February 2016 @ 16:41 GMT)
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Posted by IceQueenAce:
I completely agree with you mostly, though I don't understand by 'poker etiquette'
The meaning for me is etiquette being things like not slow playing, not splashing the pot, be a good winner/loser etc. I think maybe you mean something different or?
What I mean by etiquette is playing the game according to the purists view, i.e. only raise when you have a great hand and don't play rubbish hands that might upset people...... Etiquette is probably the wrong term but so many people get upset when opponents don't play standard poker....... They need to get a life and try it for themselves. (Essentially PINOTTE ( as indeed do many players) doesn't like that you called his raise when you merely had an inferior hand..... As though that is not the done thing...... Etiquette!)
There was many mistakes made in that hand in my opinion (mostly bet sizing). But none of them are major mistakes, except maybe the flop call considering the size of the bet.
In my opinion, a standard continuation bet nowadays in a MTT heads up situation isn't ¾ of the pot or a pot size bet. It should be ½ of the pot or less because you don't want to commit yourself everytime you c-bet, and you want to give your opponent a chance to raise you if you flopped something big. 2/3 to pot size c-bets are standard in cash games, but not in MTT.
So considering this: The c-bet from Pinotte is HUGE so it represents strength (if he was a loose player then it could rep weakness also, but it's not the case). Like he's trying to make a draw fold. It's the size of his c-bet that makes your call loose. But on the other hand, if he would've bet 240 again on the flop, then he wouldn't have commited himself with 1 pair, and could've avoided losing his whole stack later in the hand.
Also, the shove on the turn is too big, which polarizes the hand even more, but at this point it's pretty clear that he has either AQ, KK or AA, KQ or a set.
Edited by TheMachineQC (15 February 2016 @ 23:41 GMT)
I really can't say to much cause I play like that,I personally think she played it perfectly,got a good read,she knew what she was doing,it;s just to bad it was pinotte,who was involved in this hand. I think both of our players a good,both played the same game,just a bit differently 
