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oct
8

Poker: a skill game?

Tags: ben van der genugten, dutch proferssor, poker skill
Posted on 08 October 2008 by "T".
After a court decision back in 1998 the exclusive rights to offer poker within the country to Holland casino has been granted because it has been seen as a game of luck. The Dutch professor Ben Van der Genugten from University of Tilburg has criticized this decision for long and decided to investigate whether poker is a game of luck or not. To his help he had Peter Borm, a professor of mathematic[...]   Read more » Poker: a skill game?

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  14-Oct-08, 18:55   #21
  0 
xcamelx 
Joined: Oct '07
Location: Poland
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 67
85% skill 15% luck on stakes bigger that nl 50. On stakes lower than nl 50 its 15% skill and 85% luck.....but ....luck is always part of poker Smile Big Smile Smile Cool

     
  17-Oct-08, 15:41   #22
  0 
RIPStuNov22 

Joined: Jun '08
Location: Canada
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 121
100 years ago, the State of California recognized poker and blackjack as games of skill, hence the reason they were the only two legal games in the state for the last century.
I wonder why the Dutch Government didn't agree?

     
  17-Oct-08, 16:16   #23
  0 
MANUEDO 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1955
Sardoso,

per me la fortuna c'entra fino ad un certo punto.. chiaro che di fronte ad una bad beat hai poco da fare ma se riesci ad avere una certa padronanza del gioco alla lunga vinci.. Big Smile

As for me luck is not essntial.. of course when you have to face a bad beat you have no chance but in a long term if you have strong skills win Spade Club Heart Diamond

     
  18-Oct-08, 10:24   #24
  0 
Calmplay 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: Mauritius
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 4104
Posted by doomdy:
80% skill 20% luck Blink


I can't agree, I will say 60 / 40 or vice versa " 40% skill 60% luck, you need a lot of luck when blinds are huge as it's mostly there the best players are beaten not at the start of the game.

     
  18-Oct-08, 11:14   #25
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 6686
Posted by Calmplay:
Posted by doomdy:
80% skill 20% luck Blink


I can't agree, I will say 60 / 40 or vice versa " 40% skill 60% luck, you need a lot of luck when blinds are huge as it's mostly there the best players are beaten not at the start of the game.


Gentlemen. Poker is 100 percent skill and 100 percent luck. Big Smile

     
  18-Oct-08, 17:28   #26
  0 
GamblinDemon 
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Italy
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 411
In the long therm no luck is needed.
Skills required: Patience, a perfect bankroll menagement policy, discipline and of course, skill at playing. That's all

     
  18-Oct-08, 23:25   #27
  0 
Kenboiols 
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Norway
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 37
skill definetly. if it was mostly luck then nobody could ever be making a living of poker.

     
  19-Oct-08, 13:51   #28
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 6686
Posted by Kenboiols:
skill definetly. if it was mostly luck then nobody could ever be making a living of poker.


What?

Just think of Jamie Gold! You did not want to tell us, that he has won the main event because of his skill? Being on a heater during one huge tourney is enough to end up a lifetime winner.

     
  20-Apr-09, 12:41   #29
  0 
Vinyull 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Belarus
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 17
90% skill 10% luck on a long time

     
  20-Apr-09, 15:41   #30
  0 
Dellbo99 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 342
Posted by shokaku:
Posted by Kenboiols:
skill definetly. if it was mostly luck then nobody could ever be making a living of poker.


What?

Just think of Jamie Gold! You did not want to tell us, that he has won the main event because of his skill? Being on a heater during one huge tourney is enough to end up a lifetime winner.



This is the only time where luck plays a factor. When you get you luck in a big torney like Gold did it can make up for a lifetime of bad beats but for the rest of us the rest of the time luck has no relevance to winning long term.

Jamie Gold is not as talentless as most seem to think. Phil Ivey he isn't but he anit a donk either.

     
  20-Apr-09, 16:04   #31
  0 
lomax 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: Italy
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 872
oh i think that luck is a most important component of poker but not only. In all game the lucky have a great influence and also in the life (as our single decision). So good luck to all Blink

     
  20-Apr-09, 16:37   #32
  0 
smac1111 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Ireland
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 4
when playing a tourney a combination of luck and skill is needed to win . if there is 1000 players in a tourney and you are having a day when you can hit nothing no amount of skill will get you to the final tables . i have played live games with friends of mine and beat them constantly but online they have a better record than me in the bigger tourneys due to the fall of the cards . somethings we have no control over

     
  20-Apr-09, 16:47   #33
  0 
Dellbo99 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 342
Posted by smac1111:
when playing a tourney a combination of luck and skill is needed to win . if there is 1000 players in a tourney and you are having a day when you can hit nothing no amount of skill will get you to the final tables . i have played live games with friends of mine and beat them constantly but online they have a better record than me in the bigger tourneys due to the fall of the cards . somethings we have no control over


Your probably a better live player than them and they're probably a better online player than you.

No real mystery or luck factor involved.

     
  20-Apr-09, 17:01   #34
  0 
JunkyMonkey 
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Germany
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 231
It's 80% skill 20% bad luck to me at the moment...
I take a break, lost too much (because of bad beats).

     
  20-Apr-09, 19:33   #35
  0 
EimsbushKing 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Germany
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 174
it´s both

you need skill everybody know this

but you need some luck too (hit your flush,hit the straight,win an all in with AQ vs AK)


the game is all about the mix of skill and luck

i mean if no luck would be involved
somebody would be the best and win every mainevent and every ept
so there have to be luck involved

but i think it´s 75%skill 24%luck1%sick s**t ( AAAA vs.royal flush....)




pokerPLAYER

not a

pokerGAMBLER

     
  20-Apr-09, 22:08   #36
  0 
ViperX 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Ireland
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 202
It's mostly about the skill but I have no doubts that some luck factor is also involved. Blink

     
  20-Apr-09, 22:31   #37
  0 
Queens4All 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 2
After the past few days... I have to answer that is 60% luck and 40% skill? And why?? Because i was out of 3 tornments in two with AA making a progressive bet and other with a KK also a progressive bet, and they have luck only in the river... A normal person already had fold.... but a lucky guy always see the river and get the river. It is impossible to call 4 big raises with nothing and win with luck on the river. That isn't poker, is lotery and poker in the past days is showing to me that we need more luck than skills.
In a good day with luck and a bit of skills, sure i know that i will gonna be near the final table, but without the luck forget it. Angry

     
  20-Apr-09, 23:21   #38
  0 
Whiskerer 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 188
You can't really meassure it that way, it all depends on how long a time frame you are looking at, if it is a single hand there might be 40 % luck, but the longer you keep playing the luck factor will slowly be making it's way to 0.

     
  21-Apr-09, 08:59   #39
  0 
Vinyull 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Belarus
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 17
it absolutely a skill game - а long time. But every day is loto

     
  21-Apr-09, 09:01   #40
  0 
RUMMYROYAL 

Joined: Mar '09
Location: Israel
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 48
I think the difference between online poker and offline is very essential when examining the luck vs. skill factor. Offline poker is much more about skill and involves face reading, acting, and much more psychology and dynamics between players. Online poker lacks some of these factors and therefore is very much dependent on luck rather than skill.

     
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