There is so many people who think that there is some of the bigger sits there are rigged, why is it when people looses they think is rigged and when they win it´s the best stis. i think that all the players that think that pokerstars or fulltiltpoker ect. are rigged just are bad amertur players who just don´t understand poker.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1418
yes i think your 100% correct, they wouldnt risk their reputation by doing this, some losers (me excluded) have to have something or someone to blame loses on, their normally high risk players who let it all hang out and if you let it all hang out someones going to bite it off, just a matter of time (unreputable sites excluded)
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
It is true that there are lots of people who just don`t know anything about bankroll management or think that it is something stupid. There are cases where people don`t know anything about odds and think that sets should always hold up against flush draws and stuff. There are other people who think that rigging is all about bad beats. All this has nothing to do with rigging.
When I say that some poker room is rigged I am talking about rake generation. It is not related to any of the above. Whole principle behind it, is that more players get good draws or good hands on flop which will in the end produce more rake. Even if bad beat does not happen room could still be rigged.
Try to remember what pockets are you getting in the MTT when there is <100 players to bubble and did big stack or short stack ended up against you with a good hand and who won. Watch folded hands too and remember that shortstacks sometimes do go all in with marginal hands.
In cash games, watch out for long periods without rake produced or minimum rake produced and see what is happening with flop and pockets after that.
I agree. Just saw a fabulous example on Party. 2 people go into the hand witha 5 BB Bet Preflop. Flop comes : 3 Hearts. All-In / Call. The guy going all-in shows KQ heart suited, the caller shows black pocket aces. After the hand the caller complains about the bad beats he always gets. But it is not a bad beat when You put all Your money into a hand with 0% chance of winning (OK he could have catched 2 more aces on turn and river but... ); ) What did he think the other guy goes all in with. There is not a more obvious situation that aces are beaten and still he calls. Bad Play - Not Bad Beat But many people seem to think they they have the RIGHT to win with aces everytime, because its the best starting hand.
@Predobar: Why doesn't this show in the stats then. When You take a look at the databases recording lots of poker hands then it all comes down to the math behind the game. At least VERY close. I never understood why soooooo many people think that they are playing at rigged sites but You never hear of someone taking a poker room to court. If the software was manipulated in the way You say it could easily be proven... And do You really think that they would risk a 100% bullet proof money making site like Full Tilt, Stars etc. for some pennies more in rake? Do You really think the third party companies checking for fairness of the games would risk their existence by protecting a rigged site?
In cash games, watch out for long periods without rake produced or minimum rake produced and see what is happening with flop and pockets after that.
What else do You expect? At a none rigged site You will be dealt as many aces as twos in the long run. If at a table everyone gets marginal hands for a while then it is only natural that a streak of better hands will be coming, because that is the only way to get the results in the end that You expect from a none rigged poker game.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Estonia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 232
Posted by thedane177: There is so many people who think that there is some of the bigger sits there are rigged, why is it when people looses they think is rigged and when they win it's the best stis. i think that all the players that think that pokerstars or fulltiltpoker ect. are rigged just are bad amertur players who just don't understand poker.
Quoted for truth! I think exactly the same. These players should realize its their fault that they are losing.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 166
A good friend of mine is the best example for bad bankrollmanagement. When he loses a sng, he joins higher limits to get the money back he lost. Unfortunately he loses again until he is on Tilt. He is a rly good poker player, I can assure you but online poker is nothing for him. He can't control hisself.
I play on Pacific Poker, some of you maybe noticed.. you can meet me at 10$/20$ Double or Nothing sngs ;D
I started with the 25$ there but couldn't reach the points to get the bonus. Still I played about 4 months and made over 600$ =)
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Why doesn't this show in the stats then.
It has nothing to do with stats being weird. You get statistically correct amount of everything, others get same statistically correct numbers and odds. They don`t have to mess with someone`s stats to make action flop. All they have to do is to make sure that all players hit some kind of a good draw or hit something which requires large bet from player, like top pair threatened by flush or straight draw. Overall stats don`t show how many times did this situation occurred and all the stats shown by poker tracking software are in order. At least I did not find such software, if someone knows any please leave post.
...but You never hear of someone taking a poker room to court..
To be able to win a case on court one would have to provide some evidence that online room is cheating. Theory that they are making money this way and even pulling out some big database which shows this behavior is not evidence that will hold up in court because poker is a game of chance and as such can produce any result. To have any chance of proving that software is rigged one would have to get his hand on entire code of some poker room and without their knowledge because all they have to do is delete part of the program code which is doing this or just swap hard drives with clean program code.
do You really think that they would risk a 100% bullet proof money making site.. ...for some pennies more in rake?
If you can accept reasoning I have presented in part about proving something in court then you must agree that this almost bulletproof too.
About amount they can scoop this way I totally disagree, at the moment there are almost 20,000 tables full at Poker stars, which is on average 20,000 hands per minute. if they can get on average 0.05 per hand more in rake that sums up to $1000 per minute which will be $60,000 per hour. 60,000*16=960,000 (i have not put 24 hours but 16 hours to allow little more variance) If you think that $1,000,000 per day is pennies please send me some lunch money .
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Norway
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 14
Well most of the peoples that whine about sites being rigged are not following BRM or they are geting served a couple badbeats. Its easier to remember the times you get sucked out then the times you win.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
i dont think any pokerroom is rigged. there is more than one person responsible for the cards and how its mixed. and if one responsible member of pokerstars goes public with this and brings proof ...then good bye to this pokerroom. only way to act corrupt on online poker is if its in the hands of the mafia (all member involved). the only way you can get cheated at onlinepoker is by players like you and me who use tools (to show your hand or whatever)...this happen once out of a million cases and the cheater will be convicted sooner or later. just bad beats - happens in casino too.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1418
AS i said its just crazy talk, most of these sites have a board of directors, now for them to be doing this they would have to be involved and someone further down the food chain would have to be involved, they wouldnt risk it due the fact that some employees get disingruntled from time to time and would blow the whistle. these big poker sites are money printing machines and for people to suggest that this goes on is just ludicrus.
Joined: Jun '08
Location: Italy
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 411
there's no interest in having a sit rigged which risks to shut down... it would be bad for business... Only ppl who can't play talk about ps or ft as rigged, but what can we do? nothing... after all is thnx to them that we grind our monthly paycheck from poker right?
.
