Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 4358
whats with that limping on D? better fold AJs than limp there...you must raise there, if you limp you are playing 3-way, allowing all rubbish hands to come into pot and outdrow you... I understand if there is creazy agressive player on blinds that will 100% reraise with all of his range and than you mix up limping strong and weak hands but its still early and you dont have any clue how players on blind play...
Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 4358
well that "next level" is bad bad play and definetly -EV... I am talking to you as friend I am not haiting but I try to improve your play... you should 100% of the time open raise from D position when it fold to you... only if you have like 200+ hands against player on blinds and know that he is raising all of his range 100% but still even than I think you should open raise there 100% that will evry single player tell you... limping late position with AJs is such a bad play... limping anywhere is wrong play... but there are some pros and very very little amount of them like maybe 10 players thaat have perfect limping strategy where you could limp open from early position, but that strategy is very hard to study, because you would need to be balanced perfectly and that will not make so much profit, you must play against specific type of player to apply limping strategy... but limp open from late position is just bad play 100% of the time...
Joined: Jan '14
Location: Romania
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 13302
In short version you must raise with AJ. After that you wait for what your opponents say. At small games goes to pay all in but in important games you must fold with A J after your opponent is all in. Now it also depends of several situations like buy in of game, the stack, the level of the game etc...
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
I bet when you saw the flop you didnt have any hopes winning the hand But at the end anything can happen. Many of us have been in this situation before and mostly to the one losing the hand. Am i right?
Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1169
I see many of you question my play there, and i agree with all of you, especially with you StheP, now im gonna explain what i meant when i said "i took a leaf from Negreanu playbook" he always advocates small ball play, that way you limit your lost in any given hand, what he meant by small ball, is standard play but with small bets so he would loose as little as possible, but this play still includes standard raise preflop when u have been dealt a good hand, and a Cbet after the flop, so i minimized the risk even further by not raising preflop and no Cbet after the flop, coz more often then not we miss the flop big time, and if you hit hard you can still go allin, so what im losing by playing this way is the X2 X2.5 or x3 raise the BB pre flop, thats all, and i take it from there, in this case, i was ready to go allin with that hand, as you can see, we were 3 handed, SB went allin, BB folded, and 1v1 with AJs its easy call (coz i read him as a loose player, and when he push allin, i really didnt expect him to turn over AA, but he did), but if the BB went all in, i was gonna fold, a bit on a tightly side but i would even fold KK up against 2 allins preflop, i can never lay down AA And as it turned out, after that lucky end for me in that hand, i took down the whole thing
Posted by SBEP: ... what i meant when i said "i took a leaf from Negreanu playbook" he always advocates small ball play...
Except he does not play the limits you are playing on. Being passive and small minded on a microstake tourney will not bring you much future success. The fact you won at the end does not make a difference if you played that hand particularly bad.
Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1169
Posted by bowie1984:
Posted by SBEP: ... what i meant when i said "i took a leaf from Negreanu playbook" he always advocates small ball play...
Except he does not play the limits you are playing on. Being passive and small minded on a microstake tourney will not bring you much future success. The fact you won at the end does not make a difference if you played that hand particularly bad.
I beg to differ, how can u say it doesn't make a difference if you win like i said i know the standard play there, i just chose a different approach in this case, which i explained in the previous post.
Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 4358
@sbep you missunderstand small ball pot... you should play small ball or how you say it pot control when you are on drow or you have top pair and medium kicker, when pot can go eather way, thats when you are chacking some streets and do the pot control... there is no need of small ball play here your AJs smashes blinds range there, and if you are stealing from blinds (because you have to open like 70% of you range there) than AJ would fill that gap by opening also strong hand like that on D... just dont see point of limping there, and if we ask daniel he would certanly tell you that thiss is bad play... daniel would never limp AJs from D after it folds to him
------------ also when you hit hard you can still go all in? and how would you do that when SPR is sooooo small? maybe on micros like that you can overbet like 50x the pot and some noobs would caall... but limping your strong hands just isnt making enough SPR (stack to pot ratio) to get to shove situation...
------------ I dont understand just why you did it, to trap? because AJs is drowing hand and very very bad for traping... even QQ isnt traping there... you can trap with KK and AA but you must be balnced to also limp couple of times with nads like 64s, 9Toff, mayr 54s and that hands on lover side of your range there to be able to trap KK and AA when you limp with them, but traping unknown players is just apsurd, it wouldnt work as much as against players you have history with
------------ you can trap with AJ against short stack when you are small blind vs short BB when you know if you limp that he will shove his 10BB stack...I dont see any other situation where limping AJs is +EV
Joined: Nov '14
Location: Macedonia, The former Yugoslav Republic of
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1169
I play small ball over the entire tournament, just like Negreanu, no matter the limit like bowie said, if you notice Daniel always plays small ball every tournament (NO MATTER THE BUYIN), coz it saves you chips in the long run in the tournament, and this kind of low limit tournament are great to experiment with different hands, try out different plays, but over all always small ball, now this hand had nothing to do with small ball as i explained already, and as i said b4, I KNOW THE STANDARD PLAY FOR THIS HAND IN THIS SITUATION, but I TRYED TO TOOK A DIFFERENT APPROACH, i already had in mind calling allin if it came to that (as it did) and with his AA`s no matter the play (standard ABC poker, aggressive or even limping) he was going allin preflop, i know english is to most of us on this forum a second language, but i think i explained my self as possible as i can ----------------------- Brate you would be surprised by some of the plays u can see on this lvl of buyin 45 hand tournaments, i guess im not the only one experimenting here
Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 4358
you realy dont understand small ball... you cannot play small ball all the tournament... poker is all about maximizing your profit and minimizing your loss... if you win 5$ pot where you could win like 50$ is very bad play, there are specific spots where you should play small ball and where you shouldnt... for example when you have top set on very wet board, you wanna charge the drows and price them out of the pot, because you will win most of the time that pot (for example 60-70% of the time) and if you put a lot of pressure with big bets you can get more value of sticky players and also get nice amounts when they miss, instead of betting there small and price them in on their drows, so they can just bomb it when they get there and make that spot very much -EV instead of very very profitable spot...You cannot say I will play all tournament small ball... there are hands that you have to play with pot control and there are hands where you should get max value...if you play whole tournament small ball you will not get far in any tournament that I guarantee you
These hands are easy to play, it was the only viable option. Well, actually AJs from the Button, it's also easy to play. Maybe you know how to play, maybe not. What if the hand that you play AJs vs AA, is totally wrong. Unless you have good annotations of the rivals, it is best not to limp (it does not mean that after you have some knowledge of the game you do it in certain cases), and less from that position. It was an easy OR. And once the villain pushes, it's a clear fold. Why risk 2.5 of chips? The tournament just started. I congratulate you for winning, but that hand was badly played.
Joined: Mar '14
Location: Japan
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 8946
Congratulatons on winning the 45-man sit and go!
AJs vs AA - I am really not sure if jamming the pocket Aces from the small blind was the best move. A small raise would have sufficed. KK vs A5s - That's an innocuous flop. JJ vs TT - Good timing.
