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  11-Dec-08, 23:05   #21
  0   
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo:
Posted by doomdy:
@ Turbo:

In my opinion your agressive play of cash games doesnt work on sng, especcially doubles.
I invite you to PKR to play some sng's there maybe some doubles Smile

I know for sure you can make a possitiv roi but maybe not as high as you think with your agressive style.

So i hope to see you there Blink



You are talking away from subject and my asnwer to you, I was not telling you to reraise that was you who said that. I said raise instead of limp so you got the initiative in the pot what are you going to do with your JJ when you limp/call it and Q, K or A shows on flop and your opponent cbets?Call in the dark or just fold?Both seems rather weak only because of 1 overcard? I rather be the 1 cbetting and let opponent make the hard choice. Other than that you make it hard for your self folding on rag flop because you never got any info from opponent he could sit right next to you with AA and you will never know cause you didn't let him 3bet you pre.
But you could start by getting your HH under control and maybe telling if it's 6 or 10 handed, turbo, normal or double up?
I will never play at PKR because of bad service, childish software and lack of EU-license class 3 which makes it tax related for me. Other than that I played S&G's long before I started at BRM and had a decent ROI up to 20$ S&G's then someday I tried cashgames and found them way more interesting and switched immediately to cash so I'll say thanks for the invitation but no thanks I primarily play S&G's when im drunk Tongue

I really think you should read my post's again cause you surely didn't read or understand them. If you limp call you spend the same as I would have by raising but the difference is that I would have initiative in pot and you don't.

Tony G: "If you don't have last bet or raise in the pot you got negative exspectaions for the hand" which is one of the few wise things I've heard from that man.

Im not sure if it's a challenge match or whatit is you are aiming for either way it's stupid of you to avoid a discussion on the hand that should be your main goal by posting it. That is how you and I get better by discussing lines in played hands.

Ok....

I play 99% doubles so its very obvious this was a double too right?
No turbo 10 handed.

Flop:
I think not-raising isnt questionable at all, i'm not going for the first place, i am going for the top5, there comes better changes for sure.
If late position i raise it up for sure, if early position i fold.

Post-flop:
At flop i have best hand.
My check-raise is questionable?
My raise was gayish?
Hmmm maybe... If i raised more there was a change he was out of the hand right?

But you cud have a point there.
The check-raise is something i gonna think about for the future.

Doubles are different then regular, offcourse with a good regular strategy your result are also good at doubles.
I said it before doubles are about surviving and at bubble time all about 5players getting the shorty out. Its way different and yes its in many cases not real poker, its boring, winning chips with less risk.
So in that point my check-raise was questionable yes.



     
  11-Dec-08, 23:33   #22
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
How should I know you were playing double up S&G? Maybe it's 99% of your game but how the F should I know that? You don't write which game or type so I must asume it's a normal S&G right? or should I just read your mind? I am a good mind reader but I have my limits...lol.

You asked "what can I do" I try to tell you what I would have done judged on the info I got and I argument for my moves. You avoid to answer and give argumention for your moves and instead invite(challenge) me to play the most borring form of poker on PKR. What is that about?
Did you only want: "wow that's a sick suckout dude" post's or did you actually want an answer to your question "what can I do?"

You misunderstood the term "gay raise" I was not ment offending it's a popular used term about making a min raise/click raise. It's called a gay raise because of the reason I mentioned above.

Preflop why do you want to limp/call instead of raise when it cost the same but you will have initiaive by raising? No matter what you are playing limp JJ mid pos is a mistake imo and gay raising flop is too. Gay raise is allways a mistake unless you got some reason to do fx to induce bluf, but you don't know your opponent so you can't have a reason. You just tell how strong you are and make him pay minimum WP.
You wont raise JJ pre but you will shove river when str8 possibility on board Confused

Edited by M3turbo (11 December 2008 @ 23:37 GMT)


     
  11-Dec-08, 23:42   #23
  0   
intentcity4 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1418
The thing with raising pre flop with pkt Js is at least youi know where you stand if you get called, i often limp in with pkt Ks and As (depending on action of table) because i dont really care where i stand, i know im in front, raise with pkt Js or Qs and if and over card hits and your opponent shows aggresion you fold, simple. Cool

     
  11-Dec-08, 23:50   #24
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
Posted by intentcity4:
The thing with raising pre flop with pkt Js is at least youi know where you stand if you get called, i often limp in with pkt Ks and As (depending on action of table) because i dont really care where i stand, i know im in front, raise with pkt Js or Qs and if and over card hits and your opponent shows aggresion you fold, simple. Cool



Agreed I tried to explain this too but doomdy wont listen and just challenge me instead, I don't get it why post if you don't want an answer Confused

And BTW you still haven't got HH under control not even in your head....how can you check raise when you got position??

Edited by M3turbo (11 December 2008 @ 23:57 GMT)


     
  11-Dec-08, 23:57   #25
  0   
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo:
Posted by intentcity4:
The thing with raising pre flop with pkt Js is at least youi know where you stand if you get called, i often limp in with pkt Ks and As (depending on action of table) because i dont really care where i stand, i know im in front, raise with pkt Js or Qs and if and over card hits and your opponent shows aggresion you fold, simple. Cool



Agreed I tried to explain this too but doomdy wont listen and just challenge me instead, I don't get it why post if you don't want an answer Confused

Ok...

Where did you read i challenge you? Cos its not a challenge i was just curious with your style how your doin in doubles.

Btw your right about the HH was in my head wrong looking for history....

Edited by doomdy (12 December 2008 @ 00:05 GMT)


     
  12-Dec-08, 00:04   #26
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
You don't know anything about my double up style I was commenting on a normal S&G.

You never answer anything doomdy.

How can you check raise in position?

Why is good to limp/call instead of raise and have initiative when price is the same and you will get info about opponents hand contra yours?

Why do you not raise JJ pre but shove with str8 possibility on board?

Why do you gay raise flop what's the reason?

How should I know you were playing double up S&G?

Did you only want: "wow that's a sick suckout dude" post's or did you actually want an answer to your question "what can I do?"


You avoid to answer and give argumention for your moves and instead invite(challenge) me to play the most borring form of poker on PKR. What is that about?

     
  12-Dec-08, 00:11   #27
  0   
intentcity4 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1418
doomby"s a bit like me i think, many sleepless nights at present, at least i hope he is.

     
  12-Dec-08, 00:48   #28
  0   
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo:
You don't know anything about my double up style I was commenting on a normal S&G.

You never answer anything doomdy.

How can you check raise in position?

Why is good to limp/call instead of raise and have initiative when price is the same and you will get info about opponents hand contra yours?

Why do you not raise JJ pre but shove with str8 possibility on board?

Why do you gay raise flop what's the reason?

How should I know you were playing double up S&G?

Did you only want: "wow that's a sick suckout dude" post's or did you actually want an answer to your question "what can I do?"


You avoid to answer and give argumention for your moves and instead invite(challenge) me to play the most borring form of poker on PKR. What is that about?

Ok...

1) You cant check raise in position, i told you looking for history, the hand wasnt good in my head.

2) Limp or raise price is the same? So you knew allready BB was gonna raise? Or you mean sometin else i dont get it.

3) Str8 possibility? Cmon only a donk cud show A3.

4) The gay raise thingy: Wanted him to pay, a larger bet and he was out was my thought.

5) I only play doubles thought you know allready, you read some post of mine right?

6) What can i do? I meant: What can i do to get even with this guy. But comment on my hand also good.

7) I did not challenge you misunderstood that, was just curious with your style how you do doubles.

------------
Posted by intentcity4:
doomby"s a bit like me i think, many sleepless nights at present, at least i hope he is.

I am sorry my english ''many sleepless nights at present''
What does it mean? Tongue

------------
Ahhhhh how stupid the kiddo right? Blink

Edited by doomdy (12 December 2008 @ 00:54 GMT)


     
  12-Dec-08, 01:06   #29
  0   
intentcity4 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1418
yeah, hows she going?

     
  12-Dec-08, 01:35   #30
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
2) When you limp before 5 opponents you can only expect a raise and you need to protect JJ as you may have learned now. Limping JJ is not played it with caution it's playing it in the dark. You're not only raising it to build pot and get initiative but also to get information on opponents hand.

3) You didn't raise so you can't rule out any hands.

4) Don't count opponent out when you don't have a clue what he's got because you didn't raise pre. So if you want him to pay larger bet you have to make a larger bet.

5) To be honest I thought you just played normal S&G's besides that im not the only 1 who could read and answer in this post so other not so active or new members don't know you only play double up S&G so they will answer to the info you bring in the post(50$ S&G multi) btw what does the multi stand for if it's not a multi table S&G?

6) The guy just limp shoved 77 in the other S&G now you got set JJJ and are trying to slow play it by gay raising to get value if he shows resistance on flop you got nuts and the dude is willing to go broke with marginal holdings you are only giving him a cheap shot at sucking you out again. No need to be tricky to get this kind of players chips which a gay raise btw not is, it screams how strong you are at lowest possible price.

7) I don't a play specific style, I play according to opponent/game/structure so please don't put me in a box with name on it.

How do you play a limp/called JJ when flop comes and he cbets 25Kr or 368 and opponent leads flop maybe you call and he leads turn? You don't have a clue what he has. Could be 99's could be 77's thinking they are good and could be AA thinking he you haven't flop a set on me. Point being you don't know where you stand in the pot.

Edited by M3turbo (12 December 2008 @ 01:39 GMT)


     
  12-Dec-08, 01:40   #31
  0   
intentcity4 

Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1418
i call pkt Js the devils hand, because its often beaten and very hard to lay down even with a big raise from an opponent pre flop.

     
  12-Dec-08, 01:49   #32
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
It is the devil's hand like AQs also is imo but JJ is nuts vs a guy who just limp/shoved 77 preflop 1st hand in a double up S&G, especially when you flop nuts it's pretty obv that you just have to pump it up and let the retard go broke no need to get fancy on this guy and besides that I really don't think a gay raise is fancy. In most cases people are extremely strong when they gay raise especially when they CR gay raise but that is changed now.

------------
Im off to bed sleep tight guys Agree

     
  12-Dec-08, 13:40   #33
  0   
Whiskerer 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 188
There are much worse things than donks, sure you get pissed when they keep hitting but you know that in the long run those are the players that build your bankroll. What I hate is when the board is against you, i recently started playing heads up sng on everest, gone pretty well this far, win about 75%-85%. But it seems the cards are against me a whole lot, I don't know how many times I've gone out with seccond nuts. I think I have been at worst with face card pocket pairs 3-4 times in a 100 games.

     
  12-Dec-08, 15:08   #34
  0   
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
@ Turbo:

Another question that pops my mind.

I played a double, 7 people left i was big stack (2,800 chips).
Blinds 100/200, i was BB gettin AT, everybody folds and SB pushes total 800 chips.
For me 600 to call. So i did. He hit his 56suited and doubled up.
I think it was a good call. (cant remember the other stack sizes)
But the guy critisizes me for my bad call and it was not the time for me to make coinflips.
I explained to him that he was short and sooner or later he had to risk his stack also with littl premium hands so it was an easy call for me the 600 extra chips with my AT.

I still think i am right what you think?

Edit: I cant remember stacksizes and history is realy fucked up at PKR.

Edited by doomdy (12 December 2008 @ 15:16 GMT)


     
  12-Dec-08, 15:10   #35
  0   
dreamcather 
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2
there there come cry on my sholder....it will cost you $5...
peace Cool Cool Cool

     
  12-Dec-08, 17:05   #36
  0   
M3turbo 
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 2644
Doomdy do you know about ICM?

Google ICM calculator and spend some time on it im not too much into tours especially not double ups. I actually think it's the most borring form of poker. Everyone playing weaktight scared poker. zzz

Forgive me getting drunk Big Smile

Edited by M3turbo (12 December 2008 @ 17:09 GMT)


     
  12-Dec-08, 18:06   #37
  0   
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo:
Doomdy do you know about ICM?

Google ICM calculator and spend some time on it im not too much into tours especially not double ups. I actually think it's the most borring form of poker. Everyone playing weaktight scared poker. zzz

Forgive me getting drunk Big Smile

Yes i know ICM, used it to check my game (not anymore)
But in wide areas its obvious decision, but in critic areas its all about the feeling, what if i loose this hand then... (how are players, feelin convident ect)
Sorry for my english you still get me?

Drunk? Dont play poker you loose ur BR Cool

     
  14-Dec-08, 09:18   #38
  0   
hawkgman 
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 73
M3 turbo, i think you have it all wrong, JJ from middle postion- u can rasie true, i normally do, but his play is also acceptable, as if board shows KQA he can fold and let go, tell me this if he rasies and board shows either AKQ (12 out of 52) chance
then what? he has made the pot bigger and not when any of the 5 cards have been shown. a lot of players will play KQ like hands even if you do rasie preflop and then when the overcards flop you have just rasied it up for them, he is not playing just for the set value, but for any board that doesnt have higher than a ten.

Doomday is totally right about cash game though, raise it up.

sorry about the lecture. unlucky doomday, (first beat happens, second one is unreal, happened to me though, best you can do is move allin on the turn. the turn showed you a flush draw and a gutshot straight, move him allin, as a lot of players who pick up the back door straight for the rasie you made on the turn, will see you. (donkeys especially) Angry well good luck. Big Smile and go make some Dollar Dollar Dollar off that donkey, add him, he will only bust out on you later. Big Smile Worship

     
  14-Dec-08, 10:58   #39
  0   
medvedev 
Joined: Sep '08
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 318
Posted by doomdy:
I hate donks Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

I love donks. I make money on them. Bad beats happen also but they lose much more than they win.

     
  14-Dec-08, 11:18   #40
  0   
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 6704
Posted by hawkgman:
M3 turbo, i think you have it all wrong, JJ from middle postion- u can rasie true, i normally do, but his play is also acceptable, as if board shows KQA he can fold and let go, tell me this if he rasies and board shows either AKQ (12 out of 52) chance
then what? he has made the pot bigger and not when any of the 5 cards have been shown. a lot of players will play KQ like hands even if you do rasie preflop and then when the overcards flop you have just rasied it up for them, he is not playing just for the set value, but for any board that doesnt have higher than a ten.


If you play that way you have to give up on any board with an overcard. Those Q9, K5s, A2s people like to limp in with are still in the hand and have you beat.

     
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