Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
There is a different way you play cards in cashgames or sng, in sng there are stages. I really really think its no problem to limp with JJ in early stage middle position. With AA KK QQ AKs AK i wud have raised. In middle stage i also wud have raised JJ but not in early stage. There is no problem in loosing the hand when you not hit, first let players kill each other, you cant compair this to a cashgame. In a cashgame not raising JJ in this situation is not good.
I know the ''cashplayers'' dont agree with what i say, but many sng players do.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Posted by hawkgman: M3 turbo, i think you have it all wrong, JJ from middle postion- u can rasie true, i normally do, but his play is also acceptable, as if board shows KQA he can fold and let go, tell me this if he rasies and board shows either AKQ (12 out of 52) chance then what? he has made the pot bigger and not when any of the 5 cards have been shown. a lot of players will play KQ like hands even if you do rasie preflop and then when the overcards flop you have just rasied it up for them, he is not playing just for the set value, but for any board that doesnt have higher than a ten.
I got it all wrong but you normally do the same, huh ? When you don't raise you can't even be happy with rag flop when having an over pair cause opponent could have any two.
Doomdy never answer anything, fx how he will play a limp/called JJ on flop with 1 overcard or rag flop who shows resistance. So I will leave this thread and let you guys limp call one of the best starting hands.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Yes the hate-luv between cash- and sng players. Allways was , allways will
I just dont see the advantage in raising JJ in middle position in early stage in a sng thats all, for me its no problem to loose the hand at this stage.
Maybe i am totally wrong and in 1 year i see completely different but this is how i feel convident with it now.
Btw i used to raise JJ (also TT) in middle position in early stage but to many times lost chips and dont feel good about it.
Some people agree some dont, many sng players do, many cash players dont.
But i dont say i am right its just the way i play it. And for now i am sorry nobody covinced me i am wrong.
Edit: Btw Turbo you dont have to leave this thread its just a discussion how to play this hand, i appreciate your opinion, do listen to it, try to learn from it, but as i said i dont feel good about it in early stage, maybe cos my post flop is too weak (i dont know), we will see in the future
I feel a littl angryness in your opinion Turbo i dont know why just cos some people have another opinion about playing the hand? I know you are a much more experienced player as we but it all stand how comvertable you feel in playing the hand your way right? Maybe after 1 year i feel the same way as you but for now i dont.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Not angry maybe slightly irritated for several reasons.
You read half of what I write and only answer on the parts you feel like.....Still haven't told how you will play a limp/called JJ on flop with 1 overcard and opponent cbets or rag flop that shows resistance even though I asked you several times.
Post #15 you say I asked you to reraise which I never have.
Post #17 you "invite"(challenge) me to play your game at your site because im trying to help you and despite the fact that you know im an "established" cash player that make a living of the game.
"I know for sure you can make a possitiv roi but maybe not as high as you think with your agressive style." I never said I thought I could make a high ROI in Double ups.....didn't even know we were talking about double ups.
You wrote 50$ S&G multi...I aksed you what does "multi" stand for if it's not multi table....you never answered.
You expect me/all other mobsters to guess what game you are playing.
You don't even know your position in the hand.
So the level of the hand discussion is low and 1 way since you never answer the complicated questions. Because of that I don't see any reason to be in this thread and this is also is the reason I have stopped posting my played hands for analyze in this forum. It may sound arrogant but I try to help mobsters but I don't seek help here, I seek help/post hands in another forum where I think most players are better than me.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 73
fair point turbo, to your comment about me raising ( JJ ) Im an agressive player that is normally very capable of reading an opponents hand, i wont lets JJ got to any flop that has a K Q or A on it, i will evaluate the player and the way he plays, (also i have a s**t load of hand writtin notes on players, it is normal for me to have notes on 4 or 5 of the 10 players at the table, for instance, the other day, i was in a tournament, and i rasied from button, to 4 times bb with AJ suited. and got re rasied allin by BB, was about 4 off the bubble and i could afford to fold, i was about to fold ( but had a note on him and checked it, my note said, call him if he re rasies allin pre as he will do this with any A and KQ) called him and low and behold, he showed A 2.
T3ddyKGB, will post some hands for you in the future, what scenario do you want?
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
nice notes hawkgman. i think i also have to more specify my notes on players. i only have notes like "callingstation", calls even if he only hits a 2 on the board, donkey..and so on lol.
i have no special scenario in my mind to be honest. so im kinda open for any played hand that you think is worth to post/discuse about !
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 217
Posted by doomdy: Sorry was too disappointed to tell my story yesterday.
So i was ready to go up in limits cos my BR says i have to... So i started two $50 sit n gos multi.
1) Second hand i got AA on the button, early position no action, middle 2 limpers so i raise it up big, 1 limper folds the other raises me big, so i go allin, he calls. So he shows 77 Offcourse a 7 on board no ace so 2nd hand out of the donkfest
2) Fifth hand i got JJ in middle position, i limp in (i dont raise with JJ in early stage). After me also a limper, and BB raise it up to 3BB. I call, the other limper folds. Flop 5 2 J rainbow, i check he bets 200 i raise 200 he calls, turn 8, i raise 500 he calls, river 4, I go allin he calls... He shows A3 showing his straigth omg
Worse thing was in 1st and 2nd game it was the same player. After the bad beat in both 2 games he calls me names for what donk i was and i must go back to the play money tables I had no words was too astonished I looked at my screen for i think 15min he went out at both tables.
I know i didnt make any mistake, i played it right, i have no problems with the first 1 cos these things happen, the 2nd one is still in my mind. Also the person is still in my mind, he makes me angry big time. It happens sometimes you get donked out but if the donk calls you names
Its not about the money cos my BR can handle the swings, btw after this game i went back to play $20 stakes and won the money back but...
The player is in my head
What can i do?
On the turn u bet too little. His pot odds were good for that gutshot. On the flop if there was no flush draw then you played it right as you were way ahead. and turn wouldn't change much. Preflop you played it wrong you should of raised preflop. 2nd hand u mentioned you played it wrong on the turn and on preflop. 1st hand was just out of your hand and ou couldn't do anything about it. Don't blame ppl on ur loses only way I would say some1 donked u is if you played the hand perfectly. 2nd hand you should of bet about pot size or a bit more then pot size so about 1000. 500 is half pot so he is pretty much commited and 500 into a 1500pot with implied ods 2000 pot is very much worth the gutshot.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo: Not angry maybe slightly irritated for several reasons.
You read half of what I write and only answer on the parts you feel like.....Still haven't told how you will play a limp/called JJ on flop with 1 overcard and opponent cbets or rag flop that shows resistance even though I asked you several times.
Post #15 you say I asked you to reraise which I never have.
Post #17 you "invite"(challenge) me to play your game at your site because im trying to help you and despite the fact that you know im an "established" cash player that make a living of the game.
"I know for sure you can make a possitiv roi but maybe not as high as you think with your agressive style." I never said I thought I could make a high ROI in Double ups.....didn't even know we were talking about double ups.
You wrote 50$ S&G multi...I aksed you what does "multi" stand for if it's not multi table....you never answered.
You expect me/all other mobsters to guess what game you are playing.
You don't even know your position in the hand.
So the level of the hand discussion is low and 1 way since you never answer the complicated questions. Because of that I don't see any reason to be in this thread and this is also is the reason I have stopped posting my played hands for analyze in this forum. It may sound arrogant but I try to help mobsters but I don't seek help here, I seek help/post hands in another forum where I think most players are better than me.
Ok turbo...
In this stage (blinds 10/20) i play JJ same as TT 99, hoping for a set and if not, no set no bet, but with no A, K or Q another story depends on whose position. This sounds like bad play i know, i told you i did play JJ the way you said in the past, but many times lost chips and in a double (sometimes) you cant take any risks. Why wud i risk any chips with this hand if i know for sure there come better upportunities. I found out many doubles i lost cos from beginning i was running behind the facts (is this good english?) I see no point in your way of playing this JJ in early stage in middle position in a ''double''. And yes with this kind of play many players do poker can be very boring and its all about who got the longest breath sometimes. Many times there are 3,4 donks on the table and they kill each other.
I never challenged you, you misunderstood this, was just very curious how you did in doubles.
Your help is very much appreciated and i hope your continue doin it. But people can have another opinion then you right? You never played a double right? (no offend here)
Your right what you said about the game setup, i must write what game turbo, normal, double, multi.
In future i will post new hands, i hope you give ur opinion on that Turbo cos i listen to it, keep it in mind and hope to learn from it.
I learned a lot from you, predobar and other mobsters hoping to get better.
So lets have a nice X-mas and posts as many hands and all get better and better and we will be pro some day winning big money crushing ivey, crushing everybody....
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
If you play this way you can lose a lot, either to players with QQ+ (who were allways ahead) but also to the random hands in the blinds who just have flopped 2pair.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by shokaku: If you play this way you can lose a lot, either to players with QQ+ (who were allways ahead) but also to the random hands in the blinds who just have flopped 2pair.
Maybe, but i not get involved into big pots if not hitting a set.
I get better oppurtunities in middle stage and at bubble time cause blinds are higher and i have reads.
I am not convident enough to play it the way you said or Turbo. For now i do it this way maybe in future i do it your way.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Yes absolutely luv the donks at PKR they are amazing There are so many donks there lately cant note them all Looks like many BRM members got their tickets
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 3871
First of all i say that i play lower limit and my opinion is refeered to that. Nothing to say about hand 1; but in hand 2 with JJ in middle position i would have raise 3 or 4 BB, with a reraise after me would fold; after the flop, with a J on board, all in forever. You said in another thread that limp is for dummies and you made me feel a dummy that time (i never limp anymore after reading what you said ). i hope, and i think, u will have your revenge against him
? When you don't raise you can't even be happy with rag flop when having an over pair cause opponent could have any two.
thats how i make my 
