Joined: Apr '08
Location: Estonia
Age: 41 (F)
Posts: 40
I think preflop bet should be bigger. It's always better to collect blinds than lose your whole stack. AA wins little or can cost very much. Slowplaying is not for me so I would have bet preflop and if somebody call I go allin on the flop.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 2698
Posted by B1gfoot: Dont suppose you know were to get harrington on holdem 1+2 for free do you, dolly put his on his own site was woundering if harrington has it hidden anywere?
There's a bunch of books on pokerbay, just use utorrent to pick out which ones you want
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 73
I agree with everyone I made the bet on the flop too small. My main question was what would you do on the turn where he minraised.. You all keep going on about how I played the hand pre flop and on the flop. .. Believe me, I read all the books that Gene suggested ages ago and then some more. The reason you DONT want to go allin on the flop is because someone could have a set.... 8 out of 9 times you win, 1 in 9 you lose, but you lose more then 10x what was in the pot. Bad odds.
I have posted another thread about the pre flop bet, please in this thread answer only what you would do on the turn .. still call ? Now what if he does all in on the river ?
Of course the story is he called with a gut shot on the flop and made his straight on the turn.. but what I want to know is would YOU have folded on the TURN ?
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by acehighness: Of course the story is he called with a gut shot on the flop and made his straight on the turn.. but what I want to know is would YOU have folded on the TURN ?
Classic Baluga theorem. You raise preflop, bet the flop, bet the turn and got raised there => one pair is not good.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
OK you want advise on the min-raise bit, to get to that part of the hand you have to go over what happend before(i wont), all he has done is said I think i have you beat or I think ill get you to fold, now you are answering the quesions insteed of asking, you should fold cus you are unsure you can back up a bet on the river save that min-raise and try again. Your hand is not going to get any stronger, so if you are to do it do it now, as the river showing 6 7 8 9 10 j q k A are bad for you, sets and str8s. So next time dont let yourself get in to this sort of situation and take it whilst you have it (bigger raise on flop) Im crap at explaining but hope it helps.
I don't mind your play up to the flop, when u raise so small with high pocket pairs like that you have to be prepared to lay it down, truthfully I prefer raising more pre-flop because really with a high pocket pair you want to be in the hand with only one other person to prevent a suited connector or 10-J, K-Q off suit kind of hand to hit. I know you are saying that you want more action with the aces, but its better to only take the blinds, or doubling up from one person then getting stacked by some guy with 5-6 suited.
If I was in that hand and I did the exact same bets, I would probably call on the river after the re-raise. I would just call and never ever re-raise, and plan on checking on the river if he checks to me. If he bets, no one can really tell you what to do, but it would have to be based on your read of him. Also what was the river card? You have to ask yourself, is he the kind ofplayer that will go all-in with the nuts or bet around 50-75% of the pot to try and get some callers. I probably would have folded on the river with any bet unless the bet was really small or really raised my suspisions and I could put him on a bluff. The river card will give us a better idea of whether he was bluffing or not.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 2698
acehighness, Harrington on Hold'em has good section on odds and probability. I haven't finished it but what I read so far it great stuff. Cause you don't want to play 6 handed with aces.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 73
Shokaku : that was exactly what I was thinking (but I didnt follow it), but I wanted to know if it was so 'crystal clear' and 'normal play' to fold there on the turn.
I learned my lesson and next time I will fold on the turn.
I'm convinced it would not have mattered how much I raise pre flop, the KQ suited was going to call me. The flop bet could have been bigger, but I will still stick to betting half pot in this situation as I think it buys me the same information as full pot...
thank you ALL for putting in your 2 cents, I really liked the discussion here.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 65 (F)
Posts: 79
To the guys that wan't to go all in on the flop.... Which hands will call us, where we are in front? We won't even get a call with A-J, so to risk our life so early for such a small pot is sick imo.
And as some others have said, obv. raise bigger preflop. Do you always raise like that? - If yes, then I think you should make your std. raise 3 or 4....
If it's not your std. raise, then I think it is a REALLY bad raise pf, people would put you on Kings or Aces insta.
When people raise such small pf, they always say, that they are unlucky, its a bad beat etc. But the truth is, that it is a bad play. Aces is often good against 2 cards. but not against 4-10 cards
But sometimes it actually can be ok, in late-pos, like you did here, unless it's not your std. raise.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 73
2.5bb IS my standard raise... daniel negreanu's small ball strategy. i just failed to read the opponents action properly and should have known on the turn I was beat.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 65 (F)
Posts: 79
Posted by acehighness: 2.5bb IS my standard raise... daniel negreanu's small ball strategy. i just failed to read the opponents action properly and should have known on the turn I was beat.
Then its ok to raise like you did pf. imo... Cause your range is big. But I would bet more on the flop, to get draws away, and only get calls with QJ+
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Sweden
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 10
NEVER CALL TURN 1. You raise him, if he re-raise u again u fold or 2. All in and hope he not have a set, 2pair,str8 och hit his flushdraw on river. 3. Fold
My choice is 1.
Dont understand why u miniraise preflop. They could have anything imo. Raise 125-200 and if someone call, u know he had pocket or high cards most
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Finland
Age: 76 (M)
Posts: 33
Yes , I thin you made too small raise on preflop and Then also you should have raised more on the flop and It is kinda obvious that he has you beat on turn maybe str8 or something so you just have to let it go on turn
Joined: Jan '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 99
Posted by Predobar: Believe me on Merge network normal play does not count at all. Will You be a winner or a loser is not something You can influence too much. At least not on low limits and on FL it is too sick. I wanted to say a lot more but deleted most of my post for 2nd time, who knows maybe in 3rd attempt will i elaborate on merge network. One advice acehighness, forget most of the things that you learned playing there.
Please elaborate. Im thinking of going to that network because of the rakeback in would like to have more info.
1. You raise him, if he re-raise u again u fold or 2. All in and hope he not have a set, 2pair,str8 och hit his flushdraw on river. 3. Fold
