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sometimes you are damned if you do and sometimes you're damned if you dont, welcome back btw bigfoot

     
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True, thanks and nice win on the lotto :}
odds;6.75
eq 51.7
ev 21.38

(before all in)
pre-flop ev 19.88

Just a bit more info, split was around 3%

     
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hard decision to i would think one of them would have a smaller pair than the board another with 2over cards maybe push or flat call see what come next if an ace comes it could be very profitable if ur up against another one.

     
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Posted by B1gfoot:
I did a lot of reserch on this hand.
Due to position, players,pot etc the right move was to raise to $10????!!!
But with the intention to shove or call a re-raise.


How did you come to $10? Would you call reraise? Raise here just seems so risky.

     
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I was told 10 would be the correct raise, by someone who analysed the hand, its about extracting value out of weak players(in short), and i trust his oppnion, a long term winning player.
Have also been using stoxev for calculations (very good BTW)
Calling re-raise, im pot commited if in that situation so yes.
The raise might seam risky but a call is doing nothing.




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I added some info from stox, the results are showing as if all players except me have full range, (mine set with aj)when i last did it I did it with player being weak/strong, and gave them the hands i expected, so results are a little diffrent.


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but am still at 63%

Edited by B1gfoot (31 December 2008 @ 18:49 GMT)


     
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To make a raise profitable here, you have to be playing against terrible players. Calling gives you the opportunity to get away if you're beat where raising is put your money in and hope it's best.

     
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Posted by GeneYuss:
To make a raise profitable here, you have to be playing against terrible players.


And how would you judge those players (espacially the limpers) after the way they played the hand until now?
Cool

     
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Posted by shokaku:
Posted by GeneYuss:
To make a raise profitable here, you have to be playing against terrible players.


And how would you judge those players (espacially the limpers) after the way they played the hand until now?
Cool


They are getting good odds to call preflop and flop so I cannot say they are bad players based on that.

     
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hello,

i had this situation at 0,25/0,50 NL:

my cards were AJ and on the board came 10-K-K-10
after 3 players checking to the river i bet 2$ and we had a heads up
the river was -2- opponent bet 1$ and i called it and won with kicker -A-

btw i saw this board twice again, every time with K and 10... hm ( but the full house came at this situations)

Edited by ChoonT (03 January 2009 @ 22:13 GMT)


     
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i would fold, 1 raise and two call. You get better hands and easier calls. Why play these hard descissions where you can lose alot? Some can trick you in a pot, i would just call if i had an 8 Smile. And someone could have high pocket pairs. i think you play that hand a lot, you would see losing 7 times in ten and winning 3 times.

     
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Posted by senser86:
i would fold, 1 raise and two call. You get better hands and easier calls. Why play these hard descissions where you can lose alot? Some can trick you in a pot, i would just call if i had an 8 Smile. And someone could have high pocket pairs. i think you play that hand a lot, you would see losing 7 times in ten and winning 3 times.

I totally agree with that, although this is pretty tough to lay down, I think when you go all in, you take what's in that pot there or you get wamboozled unless you hit your magic J for boat, when you call, your decision doesn't get any easier, raise doesn't seem to good to me either, so fold is what's best there, just remember 87s is easy to limp after some limpers, they're getting the right prize buddy, would like to hear how it worked out in reality

     
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I see your points, but the odds work the outher way, im more likley to win 7/10. (odds of floping set like that is like 1/400)
But I dont see the point in calling the $2 if i think im beat??, calling is weak it must be a raise unless fold.(im not saying all in is right, but a call is weak)
I suppose I could bet say $6 and see were im at.
Ask yourselvs what are you getting from a call?



     
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Posted by B1gfoot:
I see your points, but the odds work the outher way, im more likley to win 7/10. (odds of floping set like that is like 1/400)
But I dont see the point in calling the $2 if i think im beat??, calling is weak it must be a raise unless fold.(im not saying all in is right, but a call is weak)
I suppose I could bet say $6 and see were im at.
Ask yourselvs what are you getting from a call?




If you raise big preflop and hit that flop, you can't really fold to a small bet like that even with that action. $13.50 pot, nearly getting 7-1 odds on a call. You have position so you act last on the turn and can see what your opponents do.

     
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2 dollar bet is weak considering the size of the pot. Most players will call it because they're getting such good value to see the turn. Raise to at least weed a couple of the players out.

I'd have to know the players to be sure, but if they're calling the pre-flop raise, I'd doubting they're holding x-8. That leaves only pocket Q-A's to be worried about(And lower the odds of someone having AA, since you're holding one.). You're sitting well with your hand.

If someone made a 2 dollar bet I'd assume they're a poor player making a weak push at the pot-- this just from what I usually see at those tables. Calling that just allows more players to catch a hand. You've likely got the best hand on the flop but it's a dangerous board. Push the players out while you can. All-in seems a little excessive though.

     
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i would call and wait to see whats up....... Smile

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A pro poker player always knows when to back off......... il fold u neva know init........ Smile Smile Smile Smile

Edited by zohaan (11 January 2009 @ 06:55 GMT)


     
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simply call.
the board could be dangerous but also interesting and there are a lot of opponent still in the hand (with these infos). I'm curious about the stack of the opponent, knowing it i will evalueìate if someone would be pot comitted in case of my raise.

     
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Posted by Dupa:
2 dollar bet is weak considering the size of the pot. Most players will call it because they're getting such good value to see the turn. Raise to at least weed a couple of the players out.

I'd have to know the players to be sure, but if they're calling the pre-flop raise, I'd doubting they're holding x-8. That leaves only pocket Q-A's to be worried about(And lower the odds of someone having AA, since you're holding one.). You're sitting well with your hand.

If someone made a 2 dollar bet I'd assume they're a poor player making a weak push at the pot-- this just from what I usually see at those tables. Calling that just allows more players to catch a hand. You've likely got the best hand on the flop but it's a dangerous board. Push the players out while you can. All-in seems a little excessive though.

Great answer, but if the all in is excessive what would you say to raise at this point?

     
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Call is not a decision definitely. Your chanses to get full are pretty small, so you'll never know where are you. Raise or fold are both nice decisions. And the only way to choose between them is your and your opponents' stats. If your opponents tend to play tight, fold would be the best decision, otherwise you must raise.

     
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I would call or re-raise 3-4bet, The pot odds should work at least to call, and even to raise...

     
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You can't raise without being pot committed..I don't know, maybe it's profitable to raise against bad players here.. But I see raising as making a mistake in hope that your opponent makes a biggest mistake.

     
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