what happens is that you'll have to get a new no deposit bonus for an other pokersite. best thing is to read a little bit about bankroll managment if I were you, cause losing it all usually means you are playing in levels which are to high for you bankroll.
Joined: May '08
Age: 40 (M)
Posted by ChristjanR: since people here are talking about reading a good bankroll management article can you guys suggest some articles on bankroll management.
old, but reliable:
I'm almost a year into an experiment on Full Tilt Poker. I'm attempting to turn $0 into a $10,000 bankroll. With no money to start with, I had no choice but to start out playing Freerolls. Starting out, I'd often manage to win a dollar or two, but I'd quickly get busted and have to start over again. It took some time but, after awhile, I was eventually able to graduate to games that required an actual buy-in. Even today, people don't believe it's really me when I sit down at Full Tilt's small stakes games. They ask what I'm doing down here, and often tell me stories about how they turned $5 into $500 or $100 into $1,000. Usually, these stories end with the person telling me that they went broke. There's no surprise there. These folks tried to quickly build a bankroll by gambling. They'd play in a game that was beyond their bankroll and, if they happened to win, they'd move up to a higher limit and risk it all one more time. Inevitably, they'd lose a few big hands and go broke.
For me, this experiment isn't about the money. It's about showing how, with proper bankroll management, you can start from nothing and move up to the point where you're playing in some pretty big games. I know it's possible because I did it once before, turning $1 into $20,000. To ensure that I keep my bankroll intact, I've adopted some key rules:
* I'll never buy into a cash game or a Sit & Go with more than 5 percent of my total bankroll (there is an exception for the lowest limits: I'm allowed to buy into any game with a buy-in of $2.50 or less). * I won't buy into a multi-table tournament for more than 2 percent of my total bankroll and I'm allowed to buy into any multi-table tournament that costs $1. * If at any time during a No-Limit or Pot-Limit cash-game session the money on the table represents more than 10 percent of my total bankroll, I must leave the game when the blinds reach me.
I think a lot of players would do well to apply these rules. One great benefit from this approach to bankroll management is that it ensures you'll be playing in games you can afford. You'll never play for very long in a game that's over your head because, when you're losing, you'll have no choice but to drop down to a smaller game. You can continue to sharpen your game at that lower limit until your bankroll allows you to move up and take another shot. These rules also prevent you from being completely decimated by a bad run of cards.
Dropping down and playing lower limits is difficult for a lot of players. They view it as a failure and their egos get in the way. Many want to remain at the level they'd been playing and win back their losses. But this can lead to some pretty severe tilt - and that can go through a bankroll in a hurry. I know that dropping down was difficult for me in my run from $1 to $20,000. When I first played in the $25/$50 game, I lost. Sticking to my rules, I dropped down to the $10/$25 game. I had a losing streak there and had to go down to $5/$10. That was tough. After playing $25/$50, a $5/$10 game was boring to me.
But I had the discipline to stick to my rules, and that motivated me to play better at the lower levels. I really didn't want to lose any more because I knew the consequences: I'd have to play even lower and work even harder to get back to where I'd been, which could take as long as a month. If you ever find yourself bored or frustrated playing at the lower limits, you're obviously not playing well. Take a break from the game. Often, stepping away can give you a fresh perspective and heightened motivation to play well when you return.
There are a couple of more tips I'd like to share regarding bankroll management. First, you should never play in a game that is beyond your bankroll simply because the game seems to be soft that day. It's never soft enough to risk money that puts your bankroll in jeopardy. The other point is that you should avoid playing in games that are at the top of your bankroll limits, when a lower game offers more opportunity for profit. I'm confident that by sticking to these sound bankroll management rules, I'll make it to my $10,000 goal. These rules are sure to help you as well, as you pursue your own poker ambitions. So, if you want to start your own quest - or play against me while I'm continuing with mine - come open a free account at Full Tilt Poker and look for me online. But hurry, because I'm hoping I won't be in the lower limits for too much longer.
When I first started playing I was dealt a hand that still creates a wry smile whenever I am dealt it today. It was in a cash game and I was dealt 4-8 off suit in the big blind. Everyone limped into the pot and the flop came 4-4-8, the bets came flying in and I simply called. The turn brought an Ace, more bets flew in and I once again smooth called. The river brought a 4, giving me quads, and to my delight, everyone at the table went all in (there were 4 of us). One guy had A-K, another had A-A and the third guy had 8-8. I was actually behind all the way in the hand until the river, which magically gave me all the money at the table, so much so that everyone left as nobody had anything further to play with.
What did that teach me? In hindsight it should have told me how important it is to raise with a big hand preflop like A-A to reduce the number of drawing hands playing against you. No, what that actually taught me for the next six months was that 4-8 off suit was a monster hand that should be played to the river whenever dealt to you. I won about $200 in that hand, which at the time was a fortune to me; I can safely say that 4-8 off suit has lost me considerably more than that since. I would be raising under the gun with it, calling huge raises with it, chasing gutshot straight draws with it, etc. I had such a romantic notion that the hand had some sort of magical properties that I completely disregarded the fact that it was actually punishing me financially.
You can never be too hard on yourself if you go broke with Aces or a set, if you get all your money in with those sort of hands in the long run you will make a profit. If however you lose all your money overplaying a hand that has little more value than sentiment, you deserve to feel a bit silly. There are times when you cannot avoid losing a lot of money, but others that are easily avoidable but something in our brain tricks us into losing it anyway. There are a lot of stupid ways to lose money, so if you find yourself doing any of these, feel ashamed.:
(Note: I have lost money doing all of these so I am something of an expert in this area of stupidity)
The Lucky Hand
Because chance is a significant factor in poker, some players can’t help but think that they need to improve their ‘luck’ as opposed to their ability. If you play a hand because you believe it to be lucky, then you really are just gambling and not putting the odds in your favour. You know what hand I consider to be my lucky hand at the moment? Pocket Kings, you know why? Because it’s a really, really good hand. When you play a pocket pair or A-K you are playing with a realistic expectation that you could end up with the best hand, when you are calling a raise out of position with 7-5 of clubs you are preying for a very specific complex series of cards to flop that statistically are not very likely to appear.
If you are a good enough player that you feel you can outplay your table by all means have a punt with a lucky hand when it isn't going to cost you much to see a flop, otherwise revaluate what your idea of lucky is, here’s a tip, pocket aces have been known to be lucky for some people.
Most online poker rooms offer signup/reload bonuses. Of course these are a good thing and should be made use of whenever possible. However, when you find yourself playing more games and more hands in an attempt to release the bonus or you are only playing on a particular site because of the bonus, make sure that the bonus is actually going to end up being profitable.
On many poker sites it takes an incredible amount of raked hands to release a bonus, sometimes you have to put thousands of dollars in jeopardy in order to release $100. I once lost a small fortune trying to release a $100 bonus on Ultimatebet, before I found out that you could only release it from cash games, and I was playing tournaments.
A similar incentive that actually can prove more expensive than its reward merits are the frequent player points that some sites offer that can be exchanged for gifts and freerolls. I can’t begin to imagine how much money I lost in my journey towards my first Pokerstars baseball cap, and with Porches and holidays now available to many poker rooms, playing games to rack up reward points can be more expensive than saving up for those items.
Reward/Bonus schemes are a great reason to choose a poker room, but remember the real reason to stick with one are good interfaces, customer support, profitable tournaments and weak cash games.
I would be able to retire if my girlfriend didn't take so long in the shower. I have lost so much money slipping in 20 minute sessions when I am waiting for her to get ready or waiting for Lost to start. The availability of cash games online means that you can literally jump into one at a moments notice, whereas back in the days before the internet boom, games would be organised and planned in advance. When you go into a cash game you shouldn’t be surprised if you don’t play a hand for the first 20 minutes, but when you only have twenty minutes to play you will only overplay the first semi decent hand dealt to you and potentially lose big.
You should always plan out your cash game sessions, and give yourself the minimum of an hour to play, preferably a lot more. Only then can you wait for the best opportunities to get your money in the middle of the table.
Trying To Break Even
Being down for a session can do funny things to a players mind, they often believe they all of a sudden can ignore their bankroll restraints and start playing in higher stakes games than they are used to. Playing just to win back lost money is very dangerous, first of all you will not be in the proper mindset to be playing, you will not be making rational judgements anymore. The other problem is that if you continue to lose the problem snowballs and you could soon be looking at a very meagre looking bankroll – and this is a much worse place to be.
If you are playing badly, stop, poker will be there tomorrow I assure you. If you are playing ok but not getting the breaks, make your aim to just play well and reduce your loss, not to win it back. You should always be playing to build your bankroll, not to rescue it.
Trying To Win a Specific Amount
The distant cousin of breaking even. You have a set figure in your head which you have decided would be a great, brag worthy figure to end on, and you are only 20 bucks away from hitting that figure, you end up losing another 70 trying to chase it. Lets say your bankroll is $930, you might find yourself doing anything possible to get it up to that utopia that is the $1000 mark, even if it means risking a fair chunk of it in the process.
Please don’t continue in a session just because you are a few bucks off a nice round figure. When you start playing badly, stop, when you start getting tired, stop. When you don’t have dream amounts floating around in your head you will find yourself surpassing those milestone figures anyway.
Maybe they outdrew your aces or they have been calling you a donkey all night, if you find yourself playing hands your normally wouldn't because you want to take money from someone who has been yanking your chain, you are probably only going to give yourself more reason to hate them. When emotion and ego come into the equation, money usually goes out of it.
Remember that when you start playing loosely to play sheriff against the nasty man at the table, you are giving them a distinct advantage over you, because they are forcing you to make mistakes. Be objective at all times and wait for a chance to trap them instead.
To show a bluff
Folding a big hand and being shown a bluff can really send some people over the edge. Some will go on tilt and overcall their next hand; others will go out of their way to show a bluff back. Being shown a bluff is the poker equivalent of somebody insulting your mother, money goes out the window and its all about machismo.
When I show a bluff, it is because my opponent seems to be emotionally unstable and I think I can put him on tilt. I want him to start reraising me in the hopes he can show a bluff, because I am going to get a big hand paid off if I succeed. When you have been shown a bluff and you start betting like a maniac everyone knows what you are up to.
Always play hands to win money, never for one-upmanship. Instead of trying to show a bluff back at someone, dissect the way they played the hand and learn more about your opponent, being shown a bluff is actually a gift if you use it properly.
You were talked into it
The final segment of my pride before a fall lecture. Jamie Gold demonstrated this in the final hand of his World Series win. He talked and talked and talked about how he thought he was ahead (which he was) and eventually got his opponent to call with pocket tens after he had paired his Queen. Another example that springs to mind is another World Series winning hand when Scotty Ngyun uttered the immortal words 'If you call, its gonna be all over baby' - which indeed it was. A slightly less glamorous example can be seen at my weekly home game when we all start saying 'you haven’t got the balls to call' to a slightly loose cannon chum of ours.
When someone starts pushing your buttons the chances are they want you to call, if someone questions your balls remember bravery is very close to stupidity, especially in a game where objective decision making will always win over pride. If you are one of those people who can get annoyed into making bad calls, turn off your chat feature or take an ipod to the casino with you to remove all distractions.
Your Luck is due to change
When you see everyone around you catching gutshot straight draws and runner runner flushes, you can really lose faith in the fundamentals of the game. When you get Aces cracked for the 4th time in a row, don't reverse your usual poker logic and start thinking that a better strategy is to play when you are behind so you can get lucky like the donks around you.
Bad luck is short term, solid play and good hand selection is long term. No matter how bad the beats get, don't deviate from a sound poker strategy by hoping to get lucky.
I haven’t done this top ten in ranking order because they are all equally worthy of the title stupid, but if I had too this would be my number one stupidest reason to lose money. Your gut tells you you are behind, the board tells you you are behind, the huge bet on the river from an otherwise tight player tells you you are behind, but you cant lay that hand down. Maybe you have pocket kings on a board of 2-5-9-A-6 and you can’t believe your opponent has an ace, or more likely when you have aces on a straight/flush/paired board and you are struggling to believe anything cracks bullets.
In most hands there are usually a number of combinations of hands that beat you when you don’t have the nuts, why is important that you know exactly which one it is? And don’t say to learn more about your opponent because they could get up immediately after the hand and you never see them again.
Good players lay big hands down, of course that means good players get bluffed too. If you call because you think you have the best hand, that’s great. If you call thinking you are beat then you are just maximising your losses - ignorance is bliss, all you need to know is that you don’t have a good enough hand to call (plus they might show you the hand anyway).
We all have had stupid incidents where we have lost money. I’ve seen players call all ins because they thought they had a flush when in fact they had hearts instead of diamonds. I once lost a chip lead in a HORSE tournament when I had a full house but didn’t realise the game had switched to Razz. I’m sure we have all accidentally clicked call when we had nothing when playing online before. But there are also moments of pure madness that you can fix today with a little discipline that might just plug the necessary gaps in your bankroll.
Joined: Jan '09
Age: 31 (M)
Great post umarplus +1, even though I have read many many bankroll articles this is by far one of the best I have seen. Chris ferguson says that you must pay at max 2% of your BR to play a tournament, but most pro disagree
Joined: Jan '08
Age: 33 (M)
Keano8003 ''what happens now ?''
Move on to the next free bankroll
umarplus, good post , a little long but I skimmed through it. Chris Ferguson`s guide lines are good..Have you heard Daniel Negreau`s $10 - $100,000 Challenge? Don`t try Negreau`s guide lines, too easy to lose your bankroll.
1. I won't move up in limits unless I have 500 big blinds for that limit. I'm starting at $0.01-$0.02 with a $10 bankroll.
2. When possible, my buy in amount will allow me 5 buy ins at that limit. For example, if I have $5 left, my buy in for the game will be $1. I'll continue to do that until I dip below the min buy in.
3. I will play only NL cash games. I'll try to play full ring games as much as possible.
4. If I double my bankroll in a session I'll quit on my blind to help avoid risking too high a percentage of my bankroll in any one hand.
5. At about the $5-$10 limit I may decide to increase the number of big blinds required to move up in limits. 500 BB's is plenty for the micro games, but could be rather short for the higher limit games with better opponents. I'll base my decision on when to do that at my discretion.
6. I may also lower the buy in amount for the higher limit games from 1/5th of my bankroll per session to 1/10th of my bankroll per session. Again, I'll make that decision when the time comes.
7. When the amount needed to reach the goal is less than the 1/5th of the bankroll buy in, the buy in will be equal to the amount needed to reach the goal. Example: If 1/5th of the bankroll is $4.50 but you only need $2.50 to reach the goal, the buy in for the next session will be $2.50.
Joined: Jan '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Thanks for all the support i have read quite abit into this now and looked at some poker videos on bankroll managment..ive applied for a starting capital with titan poker now...does anyone have any advice on this?