i got locked out of full tilt after an accusation of cheating between myself and a friend. i was foooking tamping as we do play against each other in 18 seat s+g but have never cheated in fact enjoy knocking each other out if possible friends off the table but war on it same as most people really enjoy the bragging rights good fun..anyway after what full tilt called an investigation they sent this email... Hello Darren, > > > > > > > > We recently concluded a security review of your account, specifically regarding your association with xxxxxx . > > > > > > > > We are concerned about the high volume of games that you have participated in with this player. Taking into consideration your direct associations, we are implementing the following conditions: > > > > > > > > 1) You are not permitted to sit together at the same cash game tables. > > > > > > > > 2) You are not permitted to play together in tournaments found under the "Sit & Go" tab, including the 45 to 180 player Sit & Gos. > > > > > > > > 3) You are permitted to play in two person heads-up Sit & Gos against each other. > > > > > > > > 4) You are permitted to play in the same scheduled multi-table tournaments found under the "Tournaments" tab. > > > > > > > > If you both play at the same table in a multi-table tournament, keep in mind that acts of collusion such as sharing hole cards or soft playing will lead to an investigation. This may result in account suspensions and forfeiture of funds. > > > > > > > > Currently, your account is suspended and will remain so until you respond to this email acknowledging that you will adhere to the above conditions. > > > > > > > > Your account will then be periodically reviewed, and if any infractions occur, your Full Tilt Poker account may be suspended indefinitely. > > > > > > > > We apologize for any inconvenience. However, we are sure you understand the need for stringent security to protect the integrity of our site. > > > > > > > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Erika > > > > Security > > > > Full Tilt Poker
THIS IS MY REPLY................................I do play with xxxxxx a lot he is my friend, i asked him to join full tilt. I am astonished about this e mail as if you had done a proper investigation you would see that i have played against him in the same manner as any other player, in fact as he is a friend and i do take competitive satisfaction as does he in knocking each other out. To suggest any cheating or collusion is going on it outrageous, we enjoy playing against each other and to stop us is wrong.
Take a good look at our history there is no way we are cheating, please take time and look...friends play each other and its a great friendly site, is this normal ? would you stop Ivey..Durrr or Gus playing on the same table? they are all friends off the tables but on the tables its war no different between me and xxxxx. Except about 10 million in prize money lol . No but seriously please take a good look at it and i hope we can sort this out
Thanks.... THEN I GET THIS........Hello Darren, > > > > > > Thank you for your response. > > > > > > Please understand that we have to take the necessary steps to maintain the integrity of our site and for the protection and security of our players. > > > > > > As stated in our previous mail your account is suspended and will remain so until you respond to this email acknowledging that you will adhere to the conditions. > > > > > > Your account will then be periodically reviewed, and if any infractions occur, your Full Tilt Poker account may be suspended indefinitely. > > > > > > We apologize for any inconvenience. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Erika > > > Security > > > Full Tilt Poker
--------------------------- MY REPLY........Yes of course i will adhere to the conditions . Would i be able to have my full history emailed to me as i am a proud man and feel my honour as been questioned and would like an independent view on this accusation of cheating.
THEN I GET THIS........Hello Darren, > > > > Thank you for your email. > > > > Of course, a full review of your account history would turn up no evidence of any cheating, since we have already reviewed your account and if we had found any evidence of collusion or cheating, your account would now be closed and any funds would be forfeit. > > > > Please understand that we are not accusing you of cheating or colluding in any way. > > > > Your account has been reopened, and you may now log in to your Full Tilt Poker account as usual. > > > > We appreciate your cooperation in helping us maintain the very highest standards of integrity. > > > > Good luck at the tables, and if you have any questions, please let us know. > > > > Regards, > > > > Keith N > > Security > > Full Tilt Poker.............. Wanted to get the full jist of where FT were on this, so mentioned another friend who sometimes played, just to see if he was also on the hit list and to be on guard in case they threw him into the equitation also.
reply
also what about xxxxxxx, forgot him for a moment but he is also is a friend off the tables, can we play together?
RESPONCSE FROM TILT......Hello Darren, > > Thank you for your email. > > Regardless of the players in question, we expect all of our players to play in a sportsmanlike and ethical matter. > > We certainly wish you the best of luck on the tables, Darren, and if you have any other questions, please let us know. > > Regards, > > Keith N > Security > Full Tilt Poker MY REPLY.........send me my history so i can clear my name ...................................................NEXT MAIL FROM TILT..........Hello Darren, > > Thank you for your email. > > Your hand history request is currently being processed. Due to the large volume of data here it will take some time to complete your request. > > Your response is confusing to us, given that we have not accused you of collusion, questioned your ethics or honor, and recognized that you are not in any way violating the site rules. > > I certainly understand your frustration, and hopefully I can clarify things a little better. First of all, please note that we do not suspect you of collusion. We aggressively seek out collusion, and when it is found we immediately and permanently close accounts involved in this activity. We then take all funds in the cheaters' accounts and redistribute it to the honest players which were affected. > > Full Tilt Poker thoroughly investigates *every* report we receive of possible collusion. When two players play together often, other players notice, and we sometime receive an excessive number of reports on those two players. All reports must be investigated, and in this case it is simply easier for us to ask you both not to play together. This allows our investigators more time to seek out real collusion and keep Full Tilt Poker the most secure place to play online poker in the world. > > I hope I have properly clarified the issue, and you understand that we do not suspect you of colluding on our site. > > If you wish to close your account please log on and withdraw your funds, once that is done please request your account be closed. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Regards, > > Keith N > Security > Full Tilt Poker Am i able to play against XXXXXX as we have done previously in 18 seat er s+gs?
Ok so what gives you reason to review our play more than anybody else after your investigation proved us innocent? how can i play with and against xxxxx now? What if he tries to bluff me and i call? you could say we were cheating!!! So please look close at the game history, if you have found us innocent then let us enjoy the game without worrying about being branded cheats We cant play each other with that hanging over our heads, please be fair, surely you can see the point iam trying to make.
TILT..........Hello Darren, > > Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support. > > Full Tilt Poker works hard to remain the most secure place to play online poker in the world. To that end, we closely review any accounts which have close relationships. As your account has a close relationship with xxxxxxxx, play between your accounts will be reviewed. > > We will not make exception to our security. I understand this may be frustrating, but please understand our continued vigilance ensures that Full Tilt Poker is the most secure online poker room in the world. > > Thank you for your understanding. > > Regards, > > Dave B > Security > Full Tilt Poker..................................................................................REPLY......Ok this is how i see it, i've been accused of cheating, been investigated and you have found the accusation not to be true . Then to be told that i can not play with other players!!! this is nothing more than discrimination and maybe a human rights issue, how can you say you don't think we are cheating but we better not play against each other in 18 seat s+go's?? Or you will take my money and split it with other players, cant wait to see my history!! there's a few bad beats on there you should look at . Any of your employees play Poker against each other and others??, The money you have threatened to take off me, not being split for the office party is it? maybe a employee was the person who made the false allegation? what about sponsored players who are sponsored by full tilt playing against normal players at full tilt, are they ever being investigated? i doubt it, like i said i think this is discrimination and i will be taking steps to have my own complaint investigated. On how i've been punished [discriminated by you [full tilt] even though i've done nothing wrong at all. TILT...................
Hello Darren, > > Thank you for emailing Full Tilt Poker Support. > > We understand your point of of view and frustration, however please understand that Full Tilt Poker must do everything in our ability to ensure the site is safe, secure and fair all players. Please understand that we enforce and implement stipulations such as this to protect all players, including yourself. > > That being said, we you hope you understand why we are requesting this from you and appreciate your cooperation. > > Thanks again, and we look forward to hearing from you. > > Regards, > > Steven > Security > Full Tilt Poker REPLY...I am/was enjoying building a nice bankroll and i think i would of been playing at your site for a very long time. As i do hold accounts with other sites and do o.k. I see no reason given time that i could of built a nice and healthy bankroll with you. Since your false allegation i see i have no choice but to withdraw most of my money just in case you carry out your threat of shutting it anyway...i am still waiting for my game history so a few independent experts can clear me . But how you can expect me to play on your site now, knowing that every move i make will be scrutinised? in reality its you who are cheating!!! your cheating me of playing a game free of worry. thank you.
TILT.......Hello Darren, > > > > > > Thank you for your reply. > > > > > > Your email contains misleading statements. Firstly, we have never alleged or accused you of cheating or colluding with any other player in any of our correspondence, and for you to state that we have made a "false allegation" is factually inaccurate. > > > > > > Secondly, every move that any player on Full Tilt Poker makes has the potential to be scrutinized, as we have complete access to every players account and game history. > > > > > > You should feel safe playing on Full Tilt Poker knowing that we are actively seeking out those individuals who are cheating. > > > > > > We are happy to help you with any difficulty you are experiencing, Darren, but our stance regarding matters of site integrity is non negotiable. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Keith N > > > Security > > > Full Tilt Poker REPLY..Was i locked of the site while you investigated an allegation of cheating against me????,yes i was. Did you then threaten to shut my account if i played with xxxxxx???, yes you did. So i ask you one simple thing, if you think i am not a cheat why can i not play with him?? The fact that you wont let us play against each other suggests that you suspect us of cheating, even though your investigation proved us innocent. So tell me what part of that is misleading?? an allegation was made, fact? The allegation was proved false, fact. Therefor my false allegation is factually correct. Hello Darren, > > > > As previously advised, we have never accused you of cheating or colluding with any other player in any of our correspondence, and our records clearly demonstrate this. > > > > As we have also previously advised, you may play with whomever you choose. > > > > If you choose to play with xxxxxxx, that will be permitted. > > > > Regardless of who you choose to play with, your account may be subjected to review for evidence of collusion. > > > > This is standard policy and if you do not wish to play on Full Tilt Poker due to this please let us know and we will close your account. > > > > Regards, > > > > Keith N > > Security > > Full Tilt Poker > >
THEN MY FRIEND GETS THIS AS HE WAS TRYING TO SORT IT FORM HIS END......Hello, > > > > As previously stated, due to your association with this player, you are no longer allowed to play together. > > > > Any attempt to circumvent this restriction will result in the closure of all involved accounts and the seizure of any funds. > > > > If there's anything else we can help you with, please feel free to ask. We're always here to help. > > > > Regards, > > > > Madison > > Security > > Full Tilt Poker > SO I ASK THEM TO CLARIFY IT....
ok explain this email you sent to xxxxx as we were both accused i have been in contact with xxxxx and this is your response to him. Very similar to the one's you sent me but this one is a bit more clear leaving us in no doubt now what would/will happen...........................Astonishingly this was ft's tenth email, how could they be so contradictory
Hello Darren, > > Thank you for your response to Full Tilt Poker Support. > > We're pleased we could help you clarify the issue and hope you understand we cannot make any exceptions to this matter. > > If there's anything else you need, please feel free to contact us. We're always here to help. > > Regards, > > Raymond > Security > Full Tilt Poker REPLY...Its far from clear!!! you say i am able to play against xxxxx..but the email you sent xxxxxx minutes later states.....As previously stated, due to your association with this player, you are no longer allowed to play together??? Hello Darren, > > Thank you for your email. > > Please be advised the conditions below were sent to both yourself and player xxxxx: > > 1) You are not permitted to sit together at the same cash game tables. > > 2) You are not permitted to play together in tournaments found under the "Sit & Go" tab, including the 45 to 180 player Sit & Gos. > > 3) You are permitted to play in two person heads-up Sit & Gos against each other. > > 4) You are permitted to play in the same scheduled multi-table tournaments found under the "Tournaments" tab. > > If you both play at the same table in a multi-table tournament, keep in mind that acts of collusion such as sharing hole cards or soft playing will lead to an investigation. This may result in account suspensions and forfeiture of funds. > > Your account will then be periodically reviewed, and if any infractions occur, your Full Tilt Poker account may be suspended indefinitely. > > Darren, please be advised we cannot be more clear than this, we apologize if any previous emails caused any confusion. > > If you do not wish to adhere to these conditions, please let us know and we will simply close your account and allow you to withdraw your remaining funds. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Regards, > > Raymond > Security > Full Tilt Poker
-THEN THIS--------------------------Hello Darren,
As previously advised, we have never accused you of cheating or colluding with any other player in any of our correspondence, and our records clearly demonstrate this.
As we have also previously advised, you may play with whomever you choose.
If you choose to play with xxxxxx, that will be permitted.
Regardless of who you choose to play with, your account may be subjected to review for evidence of collusion.
This is standard policy and if you do not wish to play on Full Tilt Poker due to this please let us know and we will close your account.
update new email ......Hello Darren, > > Thank you for your response. > > We apologize for our previous email, as it appears that we made an error within the information that was sent to you. You are permitted to play with the player, "willsmith8 ", under the following conditions: > > 1) You are not permitted to sit together at the same cash game tables. > > 2) You are not permitted to play together in tournaments found under the "Sit & Go" tab, including the 45 to 180 player Sit & Gos. > > 3) You are permitted to play in two person heads-up Sit & Gos against each other. > > 4) You are permitted to play in the same scheduled multi-table tournaments found under the "Tournaments" tab. > > If you both play at the same table in a multi-table tournament, keep in mind that acts of collusion such as sharing hole cards or soft playing will lead to an investigation. This may result in account suspensions and forfeiture of funds. > > As long as you adhere to the conditions listed above, you should have no issues with your account. If your friend has any issues with their Full Tilt Poker account, please have them contact us directly and we will be happy to clear up the situation. > > Thank you for your cooperation. > > Regards, > > Justin > Security > Full Tilt Poker my reply............how long before i get my history the poker word waits?
they then send this...........Hello Darren, > > Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support. > > I apologize but I'm not entirely clear on what you require assistance with at this time. If you have not resolved your issue, please write back in more detail concerning your situation and we will do our utmost to assist you. > > Thanks for writing, and have a great day! > > > Regards, > > Jonathon K > Security > Full Tilt Poker > my reply......ive requested my poker history in order to clear both mine and wills name in you accusation of cheating i could not make sense of any of your emails first you said we may never play against each other again then after many emails you said we could now you say no if your having difficulty understanding my problem then take a look back at my email history or take a look on one of many poker forums where you will find every message and replay sent by you and me posted up for the whole world to see . if you think you can threaten me with your bully boy tactics think again iam just warming up so come on history please i've got nothing to hide now i ask you again give me my history so i have proof of my innocents and show the world how full tilt treats its honest players .
Edited by Administrator (05 February 2009 @ 13:32 GMT)
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
OK man cut this a little short, usually i read entire post but here i stopped after 2nd screen.
To summarize, You and your friend were playing a lot of games together and they don`t allow it anymore. You were not found cheating but still they don`t let you play against him. Tough luck and believe me if i saw conversation between two of you and see you all the time in tourneys together I would email FTP support myself.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
They are doing thier job, someone has reported you as they found you and your friends play suspicious for whatever reaason, Im glad you posted this as it shows that they do indeed look in to accusations, at no point have they said you have cheated, it has been reported and they are doing there job. Dont know why you gave them such a hard time looks like the delt with it in a more than professional mannor, and the new conditions i think are fair. No one likes to be "called" a cheat, however if you come across some players who you belive to be cheats would you not want them to look in to it? Full Tilt did it all to the book, congats to them. GL at the tables.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Canada
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 17
Ya dude I totally agree with predobar, and there was never a single accusation, IF you just playin for braggin rights play somewhere else,full tilt is 100% justified in their actions. sorry dude. good luck
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
I have a friend I always play tournements and cash games with on FT, we've done it for over 2 years now, never had a problem like this. Someone must have reported you and your friend and of course FT have to take action. If they didn't you would have more reason not to play there. I think maybe you've been a little over sensitive to the so called accusation, they've not labeled you a cheat at all. They are just protecting against collusion and we should applaud them for that.
I wouldn't want to play on a site that didnt investigate situations like these.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 26
I don't agree Bigfoot. If their actions were looked into and Full Tilt found them innocent I don't see why they cannot play together in games of any manner. I am pretty sure in their T&C it doesn't state that you are not allowed to play with your friends in cash games and/or sit and go tourneys.
I have to say im with TOAST.
I understand FT are doing their job but if they analyzed the obviously "hefty" hand histories sufficiently they could see that there was no collusion. Instead of taking the easy way out and disallowing them to play together.
If GUS and IVEY talk on a table and have a joke they aren't thought to be guilty of collusion even though they play against each other regularly.
Probably you was reported, but full tilf is absolutely right... Im myslef was cheated last week on ipoker... Shortly, triple up sitngo which was very profitable until strange actions started comming in... I aise with AK, somebody minimum reraises... and then last guy again reraises... I call, action again the same, minimum raise, call, i fold this time... Guess what? Flop comes to nothing and one guy without even checking folds... few hands later I raise with 99... and everything comes again... Just this time i put all inn, one guy calls... Guess what? QQ.. Im out of tourney, just following action between them... One has around2.7k another 1.8k... Absolutley next hand after I was eliminated comes as that:
Big stack calls, small stack raises to 1100( it means he left with 200 chips), big stack all inn, small stack..... FOLDS...
Had enough at this time, reported immidiately, and yeasterday got email from paddypower that im right and will be awarded compensation... Just wiating from ipoker for confirmation how much it will be...
Summary: cheatoing happens and reasonably often, so FukkTilts actions are more than justifyable, actually it should be seen as a benchmark for reminder of poker networks...
ty ukian i now its a long post but i thought it needed to be put out there so to speak......its on a few forums and is getting lots of comments some with me some not but this is an issue that needs a discussion
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
They can play together. Full Tilt did not say they were innocent or guilty, but obviously see reason to seperate them in games that could easly be coinsidence. They have the right to alter TandCs as they see fit. The outcome says to me that they did find some evidence but choose to respond in the manner they did, by this not accusing anyone, so no legal complications for each party.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
i think you waste your time posting this in several forums - actually your doing a good advertise for full tilt...just my opinion!
i dont see it as issue because there´s alot friends playing together poker. in your case you obviously got unlucky someone found you two suspicous and reported you.
maybe a waste of time maybe unlucky but do you think its fair for honest players.to be punished and set a load of conditions? friends play each other all the time like ive said would they do this to the big bankrolls who play each other all the time? no they are friends off the table war on it same as most of us
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
I still didnt read entire post. But I`ll agree with B1gfoot, something was not totally right but still not enough to accuse anyone. Cmon what are the odds of 2 people playing on the same table in 2 table sng? Big. You two can still play against each other heads up and MTT`s, no big deal.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
way i see it, full tilt has put these restrictions on you so that you can't get accused of cheating. when two ppl who know each other play together thers always gona b talk of soft play. Even if your not actually planning to cheat or share cards, you could be subconsciously playing different, less likely to call a bluff, more likely to call a friends all in than someone elses. say youv got a few blinds left get small pocket pair. someone goes all in before you. you maybe more likely to call if you have the satisfaction if you lose someone you like gets your chips. even pros get accused of softplay sometimes and theres much bigger stakes involved.
so its best for you and everyone if you don't play together. can't get accused then and puts everyones mind at rest.
i can understand why you were a little confused. support isn't always clear. don't think they always read the previous conversation. isn't clear whether if you play together you will be instantly banned or just investigated more then usual. isn't even clear whether you'l be investigated if you don't play together. i don't think they directly threatened to take your money away but they might if your accused again. it wouldn't be fair to take your money away on accusation alone.
they do have the right to ask you to not play together so you should just accept it and move on. you don't have a legal leg to stand on so drop the threats to fulltilt. if i was you i would make sure one of you closes your account just in case you accidentally meet each other and opens a huge can of worms.
thank you for taking time to post awood your wright m8 i only mentioned all that legal b.s. because i was foooking tamping I've withdrawn most of my bankroll from there and am moving on lol ...teabag75 is innocent and will play on at fulltilt but ill never keep anything over 100 bucks in there just in case they take it all for the office party lol..anyone Fancie a game do a player search and we will have some fun see you at the tables
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 2698
I read the whole thing, a little bit long and getting the same answer from FT each time. You accepted the terms, nothing you can do now. FT has no time to look through the history, that's the problem.
By the way, how many sngs have you played together? And is it possible to accidentally play in the same sng as your friend or will FT stop you registering?
"Thanks again, and we look forward to hearing from you. " I think FT was being sarcastic here
