Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
This is PO graph showing February stats only. Blue: Won$ Green: Won% Red: VPIP%
If anyone wants to see some other stats for same period please leave post but most of the stats looks almost the same as Green and Red curve. Slightly, but really slightly, smaller River aggresion. Any help would be appreciated because I really don`t know what to do anymore.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
@Predobar
First I will say I don't know much about PO but graph analyzing shouldn't be too different from NLHE or
We need a much larger samlple than this. 3,5K hands is nothing....I played 2,5K hands yesterday to put things in perspective and I've had downswings/breakeven periods of 20-30K hands.
More stats like fold SB/BB to steal %, Attempted to steal %, Went to showdown %, Won at showdown % and maybe the standard preflop raise %/preflop reraise(3bet) %/aggression factor.
You can also check your position stats vpip and pfr should ofcourse drop the worse your position gets, so button highest and SB lowest.
I don't know which tracker you are using but in PT3 for example you can chose graph and get it to show 2 graphs, one for money won with showdown and one without showdown. TAG's make their profit on showdown and mostly have neutral or slightly negative non showdown profit and LAG's make their profit on non showdown and are neutral or slightly negative in showdown profit. Don't know if you can use this to anything but it's worth a thought
You have my compasion and I really hope your luck changes cause losing sucks especially when you are use to winning.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
These are just stats for SH games on same limit and on single network and I dont play more than 2 tables at once. so you go figure how many hours should i play to get 2500 hands in one day with 2 tables only. Besides I don`t play exclusively there and that is what is bothering me On different network everything is ordinary.
Unfortunately PO doesnt offer more than 3 curves at a time and does not offer any of the play related features, steal attempts and stuff, to be shown in graph form. I switched to HE manager recently but i dont know how to configure graph to show these stuff yet . but there are those stats in tables
Here are stats for 6000 hands SB/BB vs Steal 88/8/5 74/23/3 Steal 34 % total Preflop R1st 25% TOTAL 3BET 2% TOTAL
postflop aggression factor is 3.4 and frequency is 31%
WWSF 36% WTSD 27% W$SD 49% there is some ex small stat which i really dont know what it represents, noob what can i say.
Steal limped pot 42%
now you go figure
There is no graph, at least i dont know how to configure it to show these stats compared to $$ won but since entire month on that limit is losing one there should be no problem. I was comparing sessions and they are all around those average values in the end.
EDIT: I dont use Predobar as my nick so these wont help you at all.
------------ IMPORTANT: I forgot to mention, poor old senile me, one important thing. I was trying to play as some claimed to be a good type for SH, following what they said is good in the long run. I don`t know if that is so, some 10000 hands overall are not good example, but it did not prove fruitful for me. Tried one more session this evening with only 1 table open, same limits, and decided to play like them said, its more than one person claiming to be a good style. Well there is nothing wrong in that style overall but one have to be psychic to predict when will that BIG LOSS hand occur to stay in positive balance.
Here is summary of that session: 1st buyin chips going back and forward, house making a lots of rake (wonder if that is connected to the fact that they do marketing for that site exclusively), but only small amount in positive, no big hands whatsoever. Than comes this hand, im on BTN and have CO limper who rarely plays and is sitting with full buyin on the table. I get dealt AKo and I raise pot. Blinds fold limper calls. Flop is 6c8cAd, limper checks i bet 3/4 of a pot and limper calls. Mentors say you must bet flop there so I did. At the time my image was TAG. Maybe a bit on to the loose but not much, the fact i could not get anybody to call bigger bets should say something about my image.
Turn was, i think 2s, no important draws added on board. I had that guy for a flush draw or AQo or AQs clubs on that hand So I bet entire pot on turn and guy calls after a little thought.
At this moment I am thinking what the f... is he calling for. Chasing flush or straight draw with that. could he be misreading my hand. I don`t know.
And here comes the river and it is 8. no flush but I know for certain that guy don`t have 10-7. What the guy do, he bets pot which is now so big that i am pot committed to call. He had me thinking but I was nowhere near the trips which he had. I called and not only that, since it was almost the size of the leftover stack i went allin. Another buy in lost. Top pair top kicker.
This is mostly my bad read on the guy but that style offers a lot to discuss about when it comes to image influence. Some players might think of it as a loose aggressive while you play limited set of hands but masking your poorer hands with same size bets and raising on any draw whatsoever. I know that it sounds like loose aggressive but in fact it is not.
At this moment I am fed up with this school lessons and I make a buy in once again on the same table. But this time i started playing my A game. It is a little hard to play it on multiple tables because it requires a lot of reads on peoples styles and lots of psychology is involved in decision making process. There is no permanent style or decision, every hand is played by itself, play the player would be the closest explanation but in fact you are playing entire table not just one player. It is a little aggressive so there are swings up and down but in the end, if people do not run away, like usually some do and this time it was no different, their money is in your pockets unless they are really really lucky or you tilt and donk money away.
Summary is that I got my 1st buyin back in less than 20 minutes of that play, ups and downs, and left only because I wanted to stay in positive for at least one session
This just proven my previous statement that one should read and learn but not apply all what he learns. I did found one thing which I sometimes did wrong and just did not notice in stats but rest of it is like TAG, easy to read and trap. I wonder will next session end up this good.
Sorry for the long one but had to write this down and if someone has further questions about this style, don`t bother, I am not going out with details unless I can live out of monthly interest on my savings.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 2698
When you have other things on your mind like school or girlfriend than it's going to affect your game.
When I play, I can usually tell if I'm not winning at this game. Than, I make a decision, should I leave, should i take a break, should I find another table, should I move down in stakes.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
@Predobar
Your stats look std TAG'ish, you need to 3bet more in pos looks like you are only 3betting QQ+ and either AKs or JJ. Bring in suited connectors and pocket pairs in your 3bet range in pos.
Regarding your first hand you should not move all in because it's allmost your total stack, it's money not tourney chips. Some would say call cause he looks like a busted draw trying to buy the pot others would say easy fold the 8 was one of the cards I didn't want to see. A tight passive Villain as you describe doesn't pot river with a hand AK beat imo. I would put him on an 8, slowplayed set 6 or flopped top 2 but I mostly believe an 8 cause it's a bad board to slowplay anything on but still he was a passive type so What did he have?
------------ Sorry I missed the part "the trips which he had" got it now
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
That is exactly what im talking about, you look like LAG to others if youre not dry on cards but in fact you play TAG. Play sucks big time at least on that network, i tried it on different network and it is not that bad but it is not that good either.
In my "A" game i have aggression factor of some 12-15 if I get cards in usual amount and if im dry it is around 6-7
I don`t know it could also be that I was doing something wrong and if correctly applied it works. Who knows, I will stick to my game from now on.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Posted by Predobar: That is exactly what im talking about, you look like LAG to others if youre not dry on cards but in fact you play TAG. Play sucks big time at least on that network, i tried it on different network and it is not that bad but it is not that good either.
In my "A" game i have aggression factor of some 12-15 if I get cards in usual amount and if im dry it is around 6-7
I don`t know it could also be that I was doing something wrong and if correctly applied it works. Who knows, I will stick to my game from now on.
Ehh did you read #7
"That is exactly what im talking about, you look like LAG to others if youre not dry on cards but in fact you play TAG"
I told you sample was too small but not matter if you are card dead or not 3bet 2% is too weak and your 3bet range is so polarised that you are way to easy to play against.
Your aggressions factor should be somewhere between 3 and 6 more than that is simply maniac style.
You didn't really respond to anything that I commented on and I wonder if you even read my answer or im simply wasting my time?
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Dont get it what I did not respond M3. Maybe the answer you are looking for is in that big post.
OK about number of hands its not big. That style is mixed up, you bet wide range but 3bet preflop like you are playing ultra TAG, AA, AKs, AK, AQs, AQo, KK and QQ and if in position JJ. Thats why i say you get image as lag, on button range goes down to 54s and 76o and when someone 3bets you fold, but in money hands you play TAG. IMO that style sucks big time. As I said that style might be good for someone else but not me.
About maniac style, I said earlier it is all in psychology with that style but it requires full attention from player and thats why I don`t like playing against people who have more than 4 tables open, even 4 is too much for some, they just dont pay attention to anything you do and keep playing their own cards only. BOT GAME, they show no response whatever you do. Usually they leave after a while but some players, those that have 8+ tables opened, don`t even see what is happening at the table so they stay at the table even if entire table is bluffing them out of every pot and they keep rebuying for half an hour until they finally realize or conclude they are unlucky at that table. I would really like to see poker rooms limit or at least make available tables where people will play only one table. Those bots on 8+ tables are not real poker players. Sometimes when I encounter similar player even if I end up in negative I go out with the smile and with that "fulfilled" feeling because I finally played real poker game not some bot game.
. but there are those stats in tables
, you got some analizing to do i think..
