Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
Yeah you are right about the scared money, I hate playing like that, especially cause im normally loose aggressive trying to push opponents of their hands with 2nd and 3rd barrels high card Besides that I also have to think about the higher level you play the less edge you got on opponent, I mean there is limited donks on NL1K. Even the bad players at NL1K are very aggressive and got a very good idea of how the game whould be played. And the better the opponent is the higher variance you will get in your profit so really need the roll for it. Im starting to feel comfortable at NL200 but at NL400 I don't feel like I got any edge more like im being run over and also feel like im playing a bit scared, every time I got a "doubt" situation where I normally just pull the trigger I "over think" the situation and end up checking So im staying away from NL400 a couple of months atleast. About rakeback, you allmost hit the rake cap on every hand that sees flop so I guess that could turn out to be a massive rakeback
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by M3turbo: Im starting to feel comfortable at NL200 but at NL400 I don't feel like I got any edge more like im being run over and also feel like im playing a bit scared, every time I got a "doubt" situation where I normally just pull the trigger I "over think" the situation and end up checking
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo: Im starting to feel comfortable at NL200 but at NL400 I don't feel like I got any edge.
You have allready a good sample size off NL400 or is it too small? Can i ask ur stats on NL200 versus NL400? (If you dont want to tell this on this forum its ok)
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
It gives me more of a rush, just pretend its not real and play as you should, iv done both now, played under my limit and got board of winning and playing TBH and now over my limit and its such a kick and very easy to leave a table after a nice win were as id normally stay and show off the stack untill it dwindells lol.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
@Doomdy
Way to small sample to say anything about NL400 even though I just did I only took one shot at NL400 and immediate felt out outclassed but it could be that I put to much weight on that 1 NL400 session I had.
I have a habbit of tightening up when I play higher wether im adapting game or chickening out I don't know
NL100 stats = 24/21/3,5 NL200 stats = 23/20/4
1 NL400 session = 20/17/3,5 > my ground stats which I allways end on when playing other good aggressive players which I normally try not to
So LAG turning TAG as I said before not that im happy about it
@B1gfoot
You are so right but I somehow get way to result oriented when I play higher than normal.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
You already know what it is but ill say again, you are joining a table that you dont want to play on, against ppl that you belive will out play you, as you know when ppl like that join your table you take advantage as they will of you. Ahhh TAG i remember that, that was me before i grew a set of balls :} and starting to have real fun(So thanks dellboy, little advice goes a longway). (your aggresion seams low to me, i guess thats avrage for 6man tables?) So my question is when is it right to move up tables? Also think it would be nice if there was a inbetween, going nl 200 to nl 400 is quite a jump.
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by M3turbo: @doomdy
These are the ground stats you use to roughly define a player in both tour and cash.
First stat is vp$ip = voluntary put money in pot %, how many hands villain plays in total. Limp, call, raise, reraise everything goes in this stat.
Second stat is pfr = preflop raise %
Third stat is AF = aggression factor which defines villains aggression, it's roughly calculated like this: (Raise% + Bet%) / Call%
Ahhhhh kej TY
For some reason my own stats are reset for my HUD (maybe cos off PKR update dunno) Lately i play more hands, used to have sometin like 9%/8% (dunno AF), now have more like 12%/11% Also my showdown% (good word?) is extremely low, i mean every SNG i play oponents will see my cards only 1 or 2 times but i play lot more hands but not going to a showdown, which means i take it down preflop, on flop or turn/river, the agressiv way I think this is good right?
The fact i am intrested in cashgames is that you can play a lot more hands and allways can reload. In some stages at SNG i have to fold my middle pair, AK, AQ, cos risk is too high to get bust, but in cash this cards are totally diffirent right? I watch some vids bout cashgames and i think in future i can learn that too, also cashgames is were the money is right
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
I could probably learn alot from playing more tours and you could playing more cash don't you think
TAG players make their profit at showdown and mostly have negative non showdown value.
LAG players make their profit from non showdown by forcing opponent to fold and mostly have negative showdown value.
It's very hard to have midlle pair with AK
But yes I would agree that hand strength is different in the two types of poker. In cash it's all math, in tour you got tour life to think of which is a bit harder to give a specific value. I feel like im in a cage when I play tourneys, im a chicken in tours and a bull in cash or atleast I feel that way.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
I think youd do ok in in the tourns, only problem i see is its 10 man normally. Its a slow grind, staying just ahead of the blinds is how i try to play, but at some stage you are forced to take risks a good player will calculate when to do so, no point pusing all in on the donk who calls all. For me the tours are more exciting, but the cash games bring in the money. Im just under manic,av cash, but have on a few occasions gone dubble figures. I must look at this tho cus when i do play i know no-one wants to get involved with me, not to good vor my value hands. And yes basic stuff i guess, but you didnt give me yous and now im over aggresive and dell wanted me to play under....
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Brazil
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 5
Realy good job... a play NL200, 200 hand/hour , 30 hour/week. Some days when a play 6 hours i make $500... but the normal is $30 per hour.. in the last two months i lost money only 2 days... i thik is a big luck times... in 2008 won only $5500 playing NL50 and NL100... only on begin of 2009 is $9000
Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 53 (M)
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Posted by M3turbo: I feel like im in a cage when I play tourneys, im a chicken in tours and a bull in cash or atleast I feel that way.
I know exactly wot you mean. I have exact the same but the other way arround Playing a SNG (10seater) i am completely confident playing early, middle or final stage. I know what to do with what cards at what position at what stage, even feel more confident when blinds going up cos i know many opponents getting more scared.
At cash (i played some low limit cash at everest time ago) i dont have this confident feeling, i am scared too loose money, scared to play hands, easily get pushed out the pot.
Joined: Dec '07
Location: Denmark
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 2644
@B1gfoot
The only tours I play is Ipoker VIP invitation freeroll 3,5K and 5K. I actually got a couple of FT and 1 win which gave me my biggest single win But I got so many leaks in my tour game and hate the part you mentioned "at some stage you are forced to take risks" I got no prob taking risk but hate being forced to do it
Stats can varie alot from level to level, ex. stats from a good NL1K player is not necessarily good stats at NL10. Also worth mentioning is that all im talking about is 6max(SH) cash NL Hold'em and stats should be different at fullring(FR).
Sometimes the cards you get simply forces you to play allmost everyhand which ofcourse will boost your stats so you have to play a decent amount of hands before you can say anything about your stats. Also if you CR flops and cbet turn maybe even river too you AF will sky rocket very fast which ofcourse can be misleading.
At micro stakes some players might be intimidated by a very aggressive player but mostly when someone is very active and aggressive people give him less respect and are more villing to play with him. I would say it's more common not to get action if you play nit style cause everyone knows you got the best hand and that they have to get lucky and outdraw you.
But don't put too much in those stats cause there is no "correct" stats, which style to play depends on the players at the table and your own image which is very important to use. Fx for every hand you raise in a row your handstrength demands should increase cause people will respect you less for every hand you raise in a row.
@arthurcastro
Thanks and back at you, maybe we meet at the tables
@doomdy
Yeah doomdy we have totally different home ground, im a bit scared on your turf and vice versa.
When I once in a while(extremely seldom) play a S&G which allways is HU I noticed that my worst level is 50/100 blinds don't know why but I def got a leak there.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Most ppl start opening up at 50/100 and the lose players tighten, i think lots off ppl think "i gotta make a move" for me this is when my tourn game starts raking in the chips, its the 10BB thing i think and belive ppl get the game wrong around this point and hope to hit rather than play good poker (they think its the end with 10BB) , anouther mistake i see ppl making is getting a big stack and think they can sit on it and not play, then wounder why the "donk" called down there AK with suited connectors etc. At microstakes lots of ppl just dont have a clue, nit style is rewarding but you gotta know you are up aginst the donk, In tourns you gotta have a bit of luck to make final, if you play well and manage to stay ahead of the blinds thenyou shouldent be forced to play the risk game, but ppl will play it against you.
Besides that I also have to think about the higher level you play the less edge you got on opponent, I mean there is limited donks on NL1K. Even the bad players at NL1K are very aggressive and got a very good idea of how the game whould be played. And the better the opponent is the higher variance you will get in your profit so really need the roll for it.
So im staying away from NL400 a couple of months atleast.
I only took one shot at NL400 and immediate felt out outclassed 
