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Is this play genius or retarded?
 

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Durrrr 5-bets with 86 off suit  0   
In the latest episode of HSP Durrrr decides to 5-bet Howard Lederer ( the most nitty player at the table ) pre flop. He has 86 off suit with position Howard has AK suited.

You can see the hand here ( 4mins 20secs in ) - no poker ads here Fat Tony Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQt64WiUmsE

Is this play genius or retarded?

Whatever you think it makes for great entertainment Big Smile

Edited by Dellbo99 (27 April 2009 @ 17:26 GMT)


     
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The look on the face of Lederer at the and of the hand is priceless. And AK oop, so deep as they are at the table, is difficult to play. But Lederer made the worst choice. Facing the 5bet he had to push or fold. Calling oop is allways an invitation for desaster.

     
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My thoughts exactly - If you aren't prepare to stack off pre flop with AK Don't play with Durrr.

opps I messed up my poll I intended to have a " Retarded - Durrrr such a fish " option. If anyone knows how to change it let me know.

     
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Posted by Dellbo99:
Whatever you think it makes for great entertainment Big Smile

Sure does, didnt see the outcome comp went funny, but i guess he took it aftr the 8 hit, (ill watch al in a bit)
For any normall person this is stupidity, think it was stupid even for durrr, he gets lucky, however it was all preempted and durrr plays it well, what can you put him on, AA AK KK think Howard hoped for the split, durr knew Howard cards, Howard had no idea on durr, what can you say the guys a poker god, a lucky god.

     
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Durrrr hit an 8 on the turn and they both check it down. Durrrr wins with a pair of 8's

     
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the thread name is a spoiler. i watched it already, so i dont mind. just wanted to mention it...

also i believe it was a 4bet "only". but however: genius!!! Big Smile

     
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I really dont know wot to think bout this hand.
1 thing for sure, Dwan got the respect of all players.

Wot if Lederer bets?
Wud luv to see Lederer bets the flop or turn, then see wot happen.

     
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Howard played that hand so poorly he has to shove or fold pre......vs Dwan I prefer shove.

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Posted by umarplus:


also i believe it was a 4bet "only". but however: genius!!! Big Smile


I saw it a week ago so im not 100% but im pretty sure it was a 5bet which really is a 4bet but it's called a 5bet when it's preflop.

Edit.....just watched the clip it was a 5bet.

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Vote missing something between genius and standard cause it was none of the above imo.

Edited by M3turbo (27 April 2009 @ 19:16 GMT)


     
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If he had follow through with it when the board came up i could have given him props for it, but he didn't, there was nothing good from his side in that hand, he made a play Howard called him on it and Dwan got lucky, that was all there was to it, nothing genius about it.

     
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Posted by Whiskerer:
If he had follow through with it when the board came up i could have given him props for it, but he didn't, there was nothing good from his side in that hand, he made a play Howard called him on it and Dwan got lucky, that was all there was to it, nothing genius about it.


+1

     
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Posted by Whiskerer:
If he had follow through with it when the board came up i could have given him props for it, but he didn't, there was nothing good from his side in that hand, he made a play Howard called him on it and Dwan got lucky, that was all there was to it, nothing genius about it.


I am sure you 5bet the table nit 10 times a day. Blink
After the flop was a bit dull. But that made the showdown, and Lederes reaction, possible. Cool

     
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I don't, you know why? Because when the table nit keeps betting into you, he probably has something he won't so easily fold. I'm not saying Lederer played a good hand, my guess is he was not that femiliar with Dwan or that would have been an easy push, but it was far fram genius from Durrr as well, his bluff was called and he failed to bet it when he drew out, I don't really see in what way he succeeded in that hand.

Edit: Except for picking up the hand of course, but that was not really about skill, now was it?

     
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I guess Lederer is used to play against "honest" opponents. Guys who don't play back with JJ without a spade on a 4 spade board, or 5bet with 86o. So he is an easy target.

     
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I mostly agree with you Whiskerer but there was no reason for Dwan to bet it, he had showdown value and wouldn't get a call from a hand he could beat and probably put HL on the hand he had. If Dwan had not hit turn and HL checked to him im pretty sure Dwan would have bet.

     
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Ok, so the title of this thread is: "Is this play genius or retarded?"...and the two possible answers are: "neither - it's just a standard play" and "genius - Durrrr's the new poker god". How the hell do I vote that this was retarded? Cuz I think it was retarded. He got lucky...damn lucky. Lucky that his garbage hand hit, and that Lederer didn't try to bet him out of the hand.

My vote: Retarded.

     
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Okay, you are correct, but still, nothing durrr did in that hand was anywhere near genius, which was the point I was trying to make

     
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Posted by Whiskerer:
nothing durrr did in that hand was anywhere near genius, which was the point I was trying to make


You are right, I don't think so either.

     
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Not really much to think about unless you are a Dwan fanboy though Tongue

     
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Posted by Whiskerer:
Okay, you are correct, but still, nothing durrr did in that hand was anywhere near genius, which was the point I was trying to make


5betting complete junk, knowing your opponent will have a hard time calling it? (Lederer usually limps AA, KK in early position. In this hand he did raise. So Dwan seems to have thought that he didn't have a real monster, and so had a hard time calling the 5bet)

     
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I did think they're be some split decisions on this one.

I think it's genius - I can't name a single player that would have done it and Durrr's out on his own with these type of plays.

He can make these type of plays profitable for many reasons:

He has good fold equity ( HL does not have to have AK suited )
He'll get paid off when he has a good hand
HL virtually plays his hand face up
He can take the pot away later in the hand - especially with position
He can suck out and get paid by a big pair

However you see it HSP really needs this type of action. Thank heavens that Durrrr's here to bring it.

     
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