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  3-Jun-09, 05:27   #1
Would you ever lay down QQ? 0 
xxxbchxxx 

Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 2194

On a flop of Rag rag rag. Someone tight bets into you. (about half of the pot) what would you do if you are playing shortstack strategy?
push all-in. would you ever consider raise and maybe fold? I was playing on 5 cent 10 cent and I pushed all in instantly and the guy turned over pocket Kings.

Should i have let it go?

I'm not silly but can it be +EV Question to let it go ? in the long run im sure you cant but what do you think?

     
  3-Jun-09, 05:56   #2
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 6692
Was ok to get the chips in. That was the kind of flop you are looking for with QQ. Setups like QQ vs KK, KK vs AA are part of the game. Not much one can do here.

     
  3-Jun-09, 07:26   #3
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 6197
I laydown QQ many times, also KK many times, you cant allways win with these monsters offcourse Smile

     
  3-Jun-09, 10:09   #4
  0 
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 6714
In a cash game id not be thinnking of folding, on rags the only thing id worry about is the AA KK or set, but knowing he is tight and you are SS, id expect him to bet (i would have put him in pre) and with QQ id call(so am thinking offf all in reguardless of flop, possably ak on board id fold)

would you ever consider raise and maybe fold, l raise yes, SS id go all in (assuming pot is worth it) fold if too many ppl are involved in the pot.

     
  3-Jun-09, 10:47   #5
  0 
Jodoli 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 469
Of course it is a call! Short stack strategy is like that. With QQ you only fear KK or AA. This kind of hand is made to go all in in SSS. You could lose that time but at a long time youre gonna win. He could have AK JJ 1010. tOP PAIR, etc!Good luck at tables!

     
  3-Jun-09, 12:03   #6
  0 
FenoMeno 

Joined: Jul '08
Location: Hungary
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 169
I had lay down with QQ yesterday, too...a f*kin idiot go to all-in in early position...it was instant call for me with my ladies in middle position. (I play SSS most time) Everyone else fold.
He shows: 69 (I was laughing...)
Flop: 577
Turn: 8....
River: not Q or 7....
so after the hand he was laughing on me with his cr4p.... Angry

     
  3-Jun-09, 12:20   #7
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 4815
Principle 3rd of Poker Game: "Never have problems in folding whatever hand you have, if you consider its the right thing to do".
You say it was "someone tight" who bet before you. If you consider him tigh already, you know he's got to have a good hand to make a bet, or else he would call or simply wouldn't go. With QQ and nothing at flop, the idea is to have most profit possible, but against a tigh player, perhaps you should consider to play those hands following your opponent. Instead of going all in or raise, why not call? Just to see what would he do next... I'm sure he would bet again at turn and you have got to be conscious that you're not playing against rookie.
If you have a good bankroll you did well in going all in, this way you know you loose well.
If you have a short bankroll you should call or fold, not taking the risk of losing the last cents of your cash.

Edited by Fakiry (03 June 2009 @ 12:25 GMT)


     
  3-Jun-09, 12:37   #8
  0 
KDRPKR 
Joined: Sep '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 214
I think fakiry is right, if you know you're beat pass it but also, if you know you got the better hand do more than call on the river, but also you can never know for sure and that's poker. This situation though allin is good, you're shortstack, it's easy.

     
  3-Jun-09, 12:54   #9
  0 
racpxt 
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 401
If you are not willing to push QQ on a flop with only under cards, then you may have a serious problem applying the short stack strategy. In that strategy your goal is to go all in on the flop with top pair strong kicker, over pair, or better.

     
  3-Jun-09, 13:52   #10
  0 
alhoyo 
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 53
yes, i think the only situation that may be ok not to fold this hand is playing sort stack strategy that you have only 3 pocket cards ahead you

     
  3-Jun-09, 14:21   #11
  0 
ADACTA 
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Germany
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 482
Posted by Fakiry:
Principle 3rd of Poker Game: "Never have problems in folding whatever hand you have, if you consider its the right thing to do".
You say it was "someone tight" who bet before you. If you consider him tigh already, you know he's got to have a good hand to make a bet, or else he would call or simply wouldn't go. With QQ and nothing at flop, the idea is to have most profit possible, but against a tigh player, perhaps you should consider to play those hands following your opponent. Instead of going all in or raise, why not call? Just to see what would he do next... I'm sure he would bet again at turn and you have got to be conscious that you're not playing against rookie.
If you have a good bankroll you did well in going all in, this way you know you loose well.
If you have a short bankroll you should call or fold, not taking the risk of losing the last cents of your cash.


this

     
  3-Jun-09, 15:44   #12
  0 
helenliin 
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Estonia
Age: 37 (F)
Posts: 40
If you know that opponent is very tight, you can only call with QQ for setmining purpose. If you don't hit Q by the turn you have to let it go if opponent bets. It's the correct TAG play, and I have to say that shortstack strategy is not poker. Don't play SSS.

     
  3-Jun-09, 15:45   #13
  0 
Mayones 
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 98
In short stack strategy it is definetelly EV+. Even if he has as tight range as AA,KK, QQ,AK you've got 40% of winning, so go ai Smile

     
  3-Jun-09, 15:49   #14
  0 
SuperNoob 

Joined: May '09
Location: India
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 4873
Normally i would go allin with qq, but if its a tight player and i have a small bankroll, i will consider folding qq,
but if you are playing short stack strategy you should go allin with qq. u might lose some but the wins will compensate for the losses.

     
  3-Jun-09, 16:37   #15
  0 
lglowka 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Poland
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 28
I prefer 98s rather than pocet pair. I laydown QQ many times. Pocet pairs are over rated.

     
  3-Jun-09, 16:39   #16
  0 
Gottfriedx 
Joined: May '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 360
Monsters? They are good to start with. But not for All-in. Unless you're 3 BB left or something.

     
  3-Jun-09, 17:05   #17
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 2023
QQ as SSS? always good for an all-in in my opinion.

     
  3-Jun-09, 17:12   #18
  0 
Presto 

Joined: May '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 128
Posted by Gottfriedx:
They are good to start with. But not for All-in. Unless you're 3 BB left or something.


agry wit that but still they are monsters Tongue Tongue

     
  3-Jun-09, 17:54   #19
  0 
mrperfect 
Joined: Sep '07
Location: Finland
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 38
you can lay down qq. I have layed down KK only once in 2 years pre flop and once folded AA but that was an accindent while playing 4 tourneys same time.

     
  3-Jun-09, 23:18   #20
  0 
HisMaj 
Joined: Sep '07
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 10
I think if you cant play QQ to rags on the flop then you are not a good poker player, its a 100% push all in and if you get beat then its called tough and you go away knowing 7 from 10 you would win with QQ so put it down to bad luck and try again another day.

I personally wouldn't lay down QQ or just call in this scenario.

     
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