Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
Hey guys,
My Father owns our local Pub, and of late, Saturday nights have been very quiet. So, in order to increase custom I've told him that I'll organise a weekly poker tournament.
I've got lots of different ideas going around in my head of different ways to run it but am not sure on what would be most popular to our customers.
This is where YOU come in. If you were to play in a live tournament at your local, what would be your favourable format, buy-in, blind structure etc etc...?
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
A pint costs us next to nothing so it would probably be worth doing, I would definitely be charging a small rake which would more than cover that.
Instead of a SnGs I would probably have a cash game running for the bust outs... Thanks for your input dude.
A buy-in of £10 (£8+£2, rake) sound good to everyone? I thinking I should get in excess of 30 people so the pot should be a decent size for a small tourney.
I'm going to need to get some tables and equipment, anyone know where I can get some half decent ones for cheap?
Joined: May '09
Location: Denmark
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 8
Main Event Buy-in 16-2 $ (Rebuy 8 $) You can also havve some SnG tables where busted players can play (5-50 $ buy-in) Use Some Tournement Program. So player can how many players where are back, blinds, ante and prize pot.
The Tournament Director 2 is a good program. Has some Blinds Schdeule you can get.
My Father owns our local Pub, and of late, Saturday nights have been very quiet. So, in order to increase custom I've told him that I'll organise a weekly poker tournament.
I've got lots of different ideas going around in my head of different ways to run it but am not sure on what would be most popular to our customers.
This is where YOU come in. If you were to play in a live tournament at your local, what would be your favourable format, buy-in, blind structure etc etc...?
All ideas appreciated
Firstly, before you do anything a word of caution.
I am pub manageer myself, and there are very very strict laws that you must be aware of before you set up any poker game. If you are not careful you could find yourself in breach of hte gaming laws and that could cost you alot more than you would ever hope to get back in the increased revenue. They could close your pub..
First and foremost, it is illegal for people to pay to play poker in a public house. Charging them a buy in would put you in serious danger of being reported to the authorities as casinos can and do report abusers. SImply because they want the revenue themselves, and its not uncommon for casinos to report pubs for breaching the laws. I know of a pub that ran cash bingo and a local bingo hall reported them for it and the license was taken away from the pub.
The maximum you are permitted to offer out as a prize is £100. It doesnt matter how many are playing, how many people take part, the biggest prize you can offer is £100. Any more than that and the gaming commision will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Any prize fund must be paid for by the pub and cannot be seen as a buy in. Basically it is a reward for winning. You cannot have people putting all the money in and the winners share it. That is illegal.
One thing that is an absolute no no is ring games. PLaying cash games in a pub is the quickest way to end up in front of the magistrate. You may know pubs htat do it and get away with it. They are lucky.. if they get caught they are in BIG trouble... and I mean BIG trouble.
So how do you get around it.. SIMPLE
The law is that you may play for prizes up to £100 and they must be paid for by the landlord. So what you do is find out how many players you have ( say its 50 ). You charge them £2 each and give them a raffle ticket each. They are buying a raffle ticket, and for that they can win a pint of lemonade or beer. They are not paying to play poker.
The landlord then runs a freeroll event with a prize fund of $100 and only those that have bought a raffle ticket may take part... ( catch the drift ).
now supposing that you have 100 players. you could take a risk, and still charge £2 each. The landlord takes in £200 but still can only offer out £100 as advertised prize money.What he does with the other £100 is up to him, and it can be slipped under the table discreetly, but whatever happens, the advertised prize must never be more than £100.
Hope this is of some use to you, and please, please please, be very very careful. The sole reason many pubs dont allow poker is because the risks are really so high. THings like poker leagues are ran with little loopholes in the law that they exploit. They dont give out prizes in the pubs, they give out seats to events based on a league. Thats how they get away with it. THe prize fund averaged out over the leagues duration never amounts to more than £100 per night. Thats how they get around it.
As I say, hope this helps, and any more advice you may need then please feel free to ask.
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Posted by kimkam: Main Event Buy-in 16-2 $ (Rebuy 8 $) You can also havve some SnG tables where busted players can play (5-50 $ buy-in) Use Some Tournement Program. So player can how many players where are back, blinds, ante and prize pot.
The Tournament Director 2 is a good program. Has some Blinds Schdeule you can get.
Unfortunately in this country, doing that would put the landlord behind bars for about 3 years.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
Wo, thanks for the info mate, could've got myself in serious shite being so naive. £100 isn't that great a prize pool is it really. Going back I used to play i a cash game in London at the back of a pub where the pots used to be over £400, didn't realise it was such a no no.
So, I should really advertise the tournament as a £100 pot, prizes pay 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Otherwise it would just be pointless.
Hmm.. it's going to be a harder to attract people than I first thought....
What the eye doesnt see, the heart cannot grieve over...
The problem you have is that if you advertise you are making people aware of it, and that attracts attention and sometimes from unwanted sources.
In private games out the back it is all hush hush, its all mates, and its in no ones interest to go blabbing about it to their mates...
What, personally, I would suggest is you advertise it as a FREEROLLPOKER NIGHT and explain to people that to gain eligibility to play they have to buy a $2 raffle ticket which could win them a prize. £1 from the ticket goes towards prizes, the other £1 you put safely away in a shoe box.
Each night taht you run it you offer no more than $100 in prize money. Basically you count out all the £1 taken that night and offer that in prize money. so if you get 30 people playing they have £30 as a fund. If you get 120 playing you still offer out $100 but put the $20 extra in the shoe box
All the other money you keep to one side then run a league seperately over a period of say 20 weeks.
The winner of the league then gets a buy in to a special event or you can arrange for the top 20 to play in a local casino for the money. OK the casino will charge you rake or a table fee, but at least that way its all legit and above board...
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
Cheers for the advice, I'm very unlikely to get more than 30 people, in fact that would probably the very maximum I would get. Would it be fair to charge say, £5 for a raffle ticket? £4+1.
Or maybe even charge - (number of entrants) x (£?) = £100 + free drink, on the night... Or is that too obvious?
Posted by JoeJeavons: Cheers for the advice, I'm very unlikely to get more than 30 people, in fact that would probably the very maximum I would get. Would it be fair to charge say, ?5 for a raffle ticket? ?4+1.
Insert smileyOr maybe even charge - (number of entrants) x (??) = ?100 + free drink, on the night... Or is that too obvious?
one way around it is to get them to buy a bowl of chilli for $5.
They then get a free entry into a $100 freeroll tournament.
food and poker is a nice combination and theres always the added bonus that other customers will want some too and you charge them a bit to make a bit more for yourself.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1086
They're a funny bunch 'round 'ere, we're right on the coast and it's fast approaching the height of season so the more transparent we are the better. I would never get away with advertising it as a freeroll then expecting people to buy chilli, too many people would be asking questions, I'm sure you know the type of people I'm talking about, being a manager yourself...
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 2194
opps i think i may have been breaking the law then... A few friends and I get together every other Tuesday to play poker in our local. The landlord is aware of what we are doing (playing poker) and he knows we play for cash... We play upto 8 players (thats ALL my friends...lol) and just pay out first and second place. We all put £10 in and then usually play about 6 or 7 games they dont last very long by the end of the night as we are all pretty much smashed by then. If the rozzers come in would we get a beasting or would the landlord get in to trouble?
Posted by JoeJeavons: a beasting by the rozzers sounds like a right tear up lol bring it on
If its West midlands police they'd be asking to up the stakes and begging for a lock in.
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Posted by xxxbchxxx: opps i think i may have been breaking the law then... A few friends and I get together every other Tuesday to play poker in our local. The landlord is aware of what we are doing (playing poker) and he knows we play for cash... We play upto 8 players (thats ALL my friends...lol) and just pay out first and second place. We all put ?10 in and then usually play about 6 or 7 games they dont last very long by the end of the night as we are all pretty much smashed by then. If the rozzers come in would we get a beasting or would the landlord get in to trouble?
You are only breaking the law if you get caught..
As I said in a previous post, back room games are quite common. Whilst they are still illegal, the chances of 8 mates ever getting caught are remote and even if hte police did turn up in many cases teh landlord gets a stiff warning and told to pack it in ( or if you get a nice copper he'll tell you to be more discreet about it ).
THe onus lies on hte landlord. At the end of the day its his pub, his license, and if hes allowing illegal activity to happen on his premises then the blame falls squarely on his shoulders.
I wouldnt worry too much about a small backroom game like that. Keep it quiet, keep it discreet and you will be fine. And if you see a blue light flashing outside swallow the chips, grab some matches and pretend to be playing cribbage.
Right, there is some good news. I wil ltry get the link for you, but I rang our company head office and spoke to them about it and this is what the legal team have told me.
The laws have recently changed, and you are permitted to allow players to play poker in your pub and they are permitted to pay up to £5 each however as previously stated, the total prize fund must not exceed £100. So if you have 20 players they can pay £5 each to play. If you have 50 player they are only permitted to pay £2 each. If however you only have 10 players the maximum allowed in the prize fund is $50.
This is a daily limit, so it is £100 per day not per game.
You are not allowed to charge any rake, and every penny you take in must be paid out back in prizes, up to the £100 limit.
You must by law keep records of all players, all monies received and all moneys paid out.
All equipment to play must be provided by the pub.
So its not all bad. You can run your competitions quite legally ( sorry for hte outdated info but as I say the laws have changed recently ).
Contravention of hte laws however carry very stiff penalties, far more excessive than previous laws. Failure to comply can result in a $10,000 fine and/or up to 6 months imprisonment. They treat a breach of gaming laws as seriously as htey do serving an underaged drinker.
we have the same problem around here with justice. We are not allowed to organize a tournament with entry fee. so instead we organize a freeroll. But off course that day there is a performance from some local band and so you ask 5€" entry fee". while the band is playing (usually 3 songs lol) the tournament begins. at the end, the people "in the money" recieve coupons for free beer (worth 1€ each) so if you end up 10th you recieve maybe 20€ in free beer coupons, but you say you have to drive back home and you don't feel like spending those coupons, well just sell them to somebody who wants to drink or exchange them at the bar.
I hope I gave you some ideas on how to solve the justice thing, don't know the laws in the UK but in Belgium they are very easy to bend.
Joined: May '09
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 360
Hehe, I think a buyin should be something like 10 euro + 1 Free beer. That would do it for me Split the price money for top 7 players or something - make it 1 table. And the rebuy should be available, but just once, or people will abuse it. No add ons, hate that. HATE
Most important: let them play with small blinds in the beginning, really small blinds
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I played poker in my local last night but there were only six of us, two quid each. The same pub also runs a few weekly games of card bingo every tuesday. It's a pound buy in and the winner takes all. The pub also organises a quiz where the winning team takes all the money. I don't know if this is legal but most pubs in the area do something very similar no trouble with cops.
You can make money just by selling the extra beer from the customers brought in. I suggest you sell players a beer-check for two pound fifty. This entitles the holder to a free drink and entry to the tourney. You could then provide a cash prize using the profit. You could also use the beer-check as a bounty chip where you give the beer-check to the person who knocks you out. This way you can sell more beer and if someone wins quite a few checks they will come back another day to spend them.
