Joined: Aug '09
Location: Germany
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 176
What would be the right strategy when against a preflop raise from a relatively thight player, when holding pocket queens or pocket jacks?
One would have a slight advantage over hands like AK and AQ, but he might also hold AA, KK, or perhaps even QQ, but it is still a coin flip. The question is, is it one worth taking? I might be a favourite, but it only takes one All-in, to go back to zero. I might win once at the table, but lose all of it the next time in a similiar situation.
Now, if I were to call, three things could happen on the flop. Either:
-I pair up with my jacks or queens. -The flop has no cards higher than my pockets, and I have overpair. -The flop shows one ore more overcards.
-The first case would obvioulsy suit best. No explanation needed here. The bad thing is, that I'd miss it six times out of seven. -The second one should be relatively save, unless he indeed holds a AA or KK respectively, and if one of us goes all in, it would have made no difference, had we done so preflop, or after. -The third alternative offers the opponent a good opportunity to get me out of the hand, irrespective if he made it, or not.
The summary is:
-Raising all in would put me only slightly ahead. -Calling the flop would cost me the initial raise most of the time, unless I reraise him. On the occasion that I do hit the flop, and I reraise him, I get a lot less compared with going all in.
It seems (given my track record of mainly losses) that either I am not that good a poker player, have some very bad luck with betting into Aces and Kings, or something else I am unaware of. Nevertheless I wanted to write on this topic here. What do you think?
Joined: Nov '07
Location: Belgium
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1289
Play it lowball. Play it carefully on a so called dry board with lower cards then Ur JJ or QQ Unless you improve with a set,.
If U face a tight player, ur hand can be beaten maybeh, for U to find out. This is a big matter of postflop play
If u bet out with QQ or JJ and he reraises U, again postflop, chances are high he he's holding the higher PPair. Unless he feels weakness and trying to take U off the hand
just don't overrate ur hand on a low board. unless u make the set, i would be very very carefull.
The rest, other people shud explain or give opinions about, I am too tired imho. played all night.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Even the tightest player does not raise with AA and KK only. So most of the time this is a reraise preflop. The fun beginns, if he comes over the top again.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
How long have you been playing for tarrock2009?
QQ JJ pre-flop- raise (re-raise according to players) any position.
QQ - I play strong, reguardless of position. The earlier I am the stronger I play it. Against a raise and a reraise early on I might fold (accordingly), but not in a cash game, and MTT it depends on my stack size. JJ - JJ again I play strong reguardless of position,(depending on action before me) quite happy to lay down to a re-raise, or raise re-raise b4 me. But again every situation is diffrent.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 342
In position flatting a raise is always an option but out of position I would always 3-bet JJ/QQ pre flop.
One advantage with 3-betting them pre is it's often cheaper than calling. If your opponent is one that will only 4-bet with AA/KK ( or maybe AK ) then you can just fold to the 4-bet.
Flopping an overpair and folding post flop can be tough and JJ/QQ are too strong just to play for set value.
Reraise. Against a tight player you have chances to take the pot at once if he holds A10 - AK or even small pair. If he reraises - fold immediately, as most likely you are against AA or KK. If he calls, depending what flop is the continuation bet is strongly recommended.
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Germany
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 353
Posted by shokaku: Even the tightest player does not raise with AA and KK only. So most of the time this is a reraise preflop. The fun beginns, if he comes over the top again.
QQ I play very strong no matter what stakes & what levels, cash or tourney. If i run into AA, KK than so be it nothing is ever certain in life, but more often than not, esp at lower stakes your oppenent will be showing up with small PP's, ten's, Jacks. AK, AQ even AJ in some cases. Jack i used to also play very strong & would have no probs going all in, but since its been a losing hand in my PT3 database, especially since at lower stakes oppenents look you up with KQ, KJ, A10, AQ, AJ, so most of t he time postflop on a dodgy board like 2 overcards & guy showing alot of strength, then its better to just fold it & cut the losses, but again more often than not your jacks are going to be good on the right sort of board.
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1331
Hi!!
I go allin preflop with QQ if i can. Only if the tight player is in utg ot utg+1 and i have lots of hands versus him i call or fold to his reraise. With overcards in board.. hurts fold, but fold.
There are 3 ways to play JJ and they are all wrong. U can be easily dominated with that hand. QQ is a little different. It's the 5th best starting hand and raising or reraising villian is fine. Any one who says push pre flop with either of those hands are "maniacs". there's a clear line between aggressive and stupid.
Posted by doomdy: You have to put more info on. MTT/SNG/CASH? Wot stage? Early, middle, final? Close too the money or not? Stacksizes? Freeroll or real money?
Nobody can answer this how u put this
I totally agree with Doomdy. In general I prefer not to push allin with high pair, just to maximize winning too. So I would bet 3 x BB
