Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
As asked, I finally made my first video yesterday with 2 tables using the strategy outlined here. Never made a video and still need to add sound, because it´s pretty boring to watch without it. + I´d like to say WHY I do what I do, bet sizing, position, bluffs, opponent reads, etc.
I came in 2nd in both, which is a decent result, I believe. Was kind of nervous knowing it was for everybody to watch so my Heads-Up play was far from optimal, to say the least. The point is to CASH in a SnG, and that is what the video is all about.
ORIGINAL POST:
First of all, I´m not a "grinder". I play mostly MTT´s.
I built up my initial Bankroll with STT´s a long time ago, and I still play them either for fun, and to win back tournament buy-ins.
Still don´t know much about ICM and Nash equilibrium charts, but apparently it´s the way to go if you are a "Grinder" hoping to cash big in them and multi-tabling heavily. I still "play the table".
What I DO see in the micros up to $5-6 is A LOT of bad play.
Basic SnG strategy (goes for ALL limits, even $500 buy-ins):
Sit tight and FOLD !
That´s by far the best advice I can give you. When I tell you honestly that I cash easily in about 7/10 SnG´s I play, that should say enough.
Outside of monster hands, like AA-JJ, all pairs cheap and in position, and AK, sometimes AQ or AJ (in position), I dump just about EVERYTHING. Even AQ and AJ to huge raises or all-ins.
Basically, I sit back and watch everyone battling for chips, getting busted out, trading stacks to each other...blablabla....
Just keep your stack "healthy", and sit back and watch. Usually after a half hour, half the field has busted out, and you are basically playing a 4-5 man SnG when the blinds start to mean something. Don´t even get me started on what a statistical advantage that creates, playing against 4-5 players instead of 9-10.
The toughest part in the Micros is the 4-5 player stage (but then it always is), because usually the play is SO bad, people will give the short stacks their chips, and they are back in the running instead of busted out. That is probably the BIGGEST mistake, players make at this level. Not ganging up on the weak stacks!!!
Typical mistakes: Having a HUGE stack, and instead of sitting back and waiting for the Heads Up, where the money is, they start to attack everyone, even the other strong stacks, and before you know it, THEY are the short stack or out. Seen it a million times.
Sharks attack the fish! basic rule of Poker. (the "fish" being the short stacks in this case)
If you make it to that 4-5 man stage with at least 2/3 of your stack left, you´re good to go. We have now reached the shove or fold stage, and that "puny" stack will turn into a competitive stack in just 1 hand, if you play it well.
From then on, it´s up to you.
Easy!
Any comments are welcome, as usual.
EDIT: One more tip. When the table has seen you do NOTHING for a half hour, and then all of a sudden you fire up your game, they are surprised, get scared, worried that their read on you sucks big time, and you can do whatever the hell you like for a while. LOTS of fun, that.
+ they actually respect your first raises/all-ins and you can pick up some big blinds easy to get your stack up to par.
------------ LEAKFINDER VIDEOS
On all Video Training sites, the Pros take a session from a member, and analyse it for leaks.
Dozn posted some Videos of an Sng Donking players out for a laugh, but they are actually very useful to point out the most typical mistakes most players make at the micro stakes.
So I decided to make a "Leakfinder" post about them with the relevant comments you would typically get on a training site. They are often far more useful than just describing a strategy.
I will adress the 4 major leaks in these videos, typical mistakes made by most players at these levels:
1. You can not possibly put someone on a specific hand, not with the information you had in the previous example. Just plain impossible. Don´t do it! You can put people on "Ranges", and AQ, KQ are in EVERYBODY´s range. So it figures that with 4 people in the pot, at least 1 would be holding a Q. especially in the early stages of an SnG.
Obviously Leak no. 1. You are trying to put people onspecific hands with absolutely no information.
2. You are playing your cards and NOT the other players at all. If you had paid attention, you would have known that the player you were facing in that hand was playing perfect SnG strategy. He folded EVERY hand, and had only limped in with a small pair in late position earlier. He didn´t even try to bluff that hand or take the pot, he just checked to the River with all the overcards. Basically saving his chips in the early stages. Obviously someone who knows how to play SnG´s. So when he bet the flop, you should have known he was holding a Q.
Obvioulsy Leak no. 2. You are playing your cards and paying absolutely no attention to who you are actually facing.
3. Again, you are playing your cards, and not taking into account what game you are actually playing. A Sit and Go.
An Sng plays differently from a Cash game, and differently from a Tournament.
When you got that AJo with your HUGE stack, you had such a hard time laying it down, the tension was obvious. You were talking about a "missed" opportunity, when a Q was on the board, then a K, and finally the hand was won with 2 pair. Then you realised you saved a whole bunch of chips. Of course. AJ is NOT that great a hand in the early part of an SnG and should be folded anyways unless you are on the button with a limp or small raise depending on the table, when the blinds are still ridiculously low.
Obviously Leak no. 3. You are, again, playing your hand with no consideration of which game you are actually playing.
4. You are not thinking at all while playing Poker. Still with your big Stack and really low blinds 50/100, you decide to raise 400 on the SB with 99. He raises you big time, and you go all-in !!! Why?
He shows AK, and AGAIN Donk him out with trip 9´s with a K hitting the board.
Just before, you try to steal 25/50 blinds with 78s, he goes all-in, and you snap-call again!!! He shows 10 10 and....need I say it?.... You Donk out nother player hitting a straight!
Unbelievably lucky!
At this stage, the blinds are ABSOLUTELY not worth risking a chunck of your stack to steal them. They are ridiculously low, and you are getting NO odds to actually steal that puny amount. Depending on stack sizes, people still in the game, etc., they "might" become worth stealing from 75/150 and preferably up. That´s just a plain fact. Undisputable if you know anything at all about ICM (just very basic stuff) and what your chips are worth at the beginning of an SnG.
Obviously Leak no. 4. You are not "thinking" at all about anything, and just clicking away.
If you are a typical low stakes aggro player in these stakes, pretend it was you and take the comments to heart. They will make a HUGE difference in your overall SnG winnings.
Also....
The way this was played is what I always hope for in an SnG. Someone playing horribly, busting everyone off the tables with suckouts, leaving me to do nothing until basically Heads-UP, when I can take all his chips away. There is no easier way to win a SnG than having a player like that in the game. I just sit back and watch him bust everyone out, good and bad players, with a sure cash for me. 2nd place is a guarantee, 1st place comes down to a decent Heads-Up game. you can´t ask for anything better than that.
As always, all comments are welcomed.
Edited by IslandJack (21 January 2012 @ 12:22 GMT)
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Damn! That's really good stuff Island. The main points I've been abiding by is, recognising that AJ and hands below this aren't worth risking and if I can't get in cheap I'm not afriad to fold it away. And, yes! Sometimes I wish I'd have played it, but most of the time your saying "Nice Fold" to yourself. Another strong point is, you remind us at the initial startup of the games when blinds are small it's not worth a gamble to an Allin player to win 35 to 70 chips, fold out.
I do need to get more practice in HU, but have been doing better.
To go back to an early question about my staying away from the game for a while and has it helped. I think I've been patient and more relaxed after the break. I was hurt and frustrated with the whole "Black Friday" deal so tilt was daily.
I've been playing about 10 SnG's a day and place in 5 of 10. Yesterday was a little exceptional to place in 7 of 10 with 3 - 1st place finishes. I need to learn how to holdout for the long haul in bigger tournies which I'm not good at. Usually miss out or make small $$ on tournies with 300+ players.
I do believe if someone wants to improve their game and build a small BR that they should read this information again and again to build the defined advice into their game. The more you read it, practice it and abide by these practices the better you'll become or I'm just extremely lucky and I don't believe that is 100% the case. Thanks BRM / Mobsters!
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Nice stuff here. Very good advises. I was doing pretty much all that and was building my stack nicely, slow but steady, until a bad strike of about 10 days that made lose most of my stack and the last day just playing whatever with my nerves Not smart so i stopped playing the sng's to take my mind of, of it. Its been about 4 months now, and after the detailed info and videos here, if i get the free time I will start grinding again.
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1875
I like this thread, I hope you will give write comment even you post video, Jack . Cause my English is very bad and I don't understand voice commentary, Thanks for sharing
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
@Greenmohave. you play the Multi table SnG´s, so I´m hesitant to think what you should do with AJ. They are quite agressive, aren´t they? Maybe I should try some. Can´t remember playing one, maybe way back.
@Mober: I understand completely, believe me. Just got busted from 6 (yes 6) SnG´s in a row by people hitting trips on the turn or River. How is that even possible? 4 times with AA..... No guarantees in this game. Kinda Tilting apparently, so I´ll take a break.... pfffffffffff
Yep...Definitely Tilting....
@Macubaas: That is a great compliment. Thanks! Can´t be temted?.....
@Serpang: Never made a Video, so I´m already having a hard time just getting the sound on it and the video to an uploadable size. I wouldn´t even know how to add the text. Sorry man. Maybe when I´ll know better what I´m doing...
Thanks for the great comments. I hope it helps some people along.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Hey Jack, many thanks for giving all these advice. I will print this out and try to follow the strategy. I am starting playing SNG at Pokerstars, but atm I try out the turbo fifty50 there. But I guess the main strategy is similar...
Joined: May '10
Location: Romania
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 20
Good advices and a profitable strategy,Island Jack. Can you copy/paste here your all/time MTT statistics? I would like to see those results,check the played hands and make a better pokerplayer of myself.Congrats,Island
Joined: Nov '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 102
I dont know what it is, but i consider myself to be a great live tournament player, but for some reason I cannot play online, I do not know why, but i always seem to loose more than im winning on any site. I have a couple of good days, where i make a quick profilt, but then lose it in one day, i only play $1 SnG's.
Ill be sure to take your comments on board, and see if that improves my game
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by DarkagonX0X: Good advices and a profitable strategy,Island Jack. Can you copy/paste here your all/time MTT statistics? I would like to see those results,check the played hands and make a better pokerplayer of myself.Congrats,Island
I appreciate the compliment, but honestly, it´s not worth it. There are a lot better MTT players than me on the forum.
I´ve always been just too lazy to put in the time. Joined an MTT training site for a couple of months second half of last year, so I´ve got lot´s of videos to watch, but I only just recently found the time to start watching some of those.
I was actually well on my way just before the summer last year, Final Tabled most tourneys I played, but then some drastic family stuff happened, And we´re not out of the woods yet. My MTT game just went to hell since then. You need a clear mind and no worries to do well consistently in MTT´s.
As far as BRM goes, pretty proud that I won the first Full Tilt freeroll they organised last year (3.600 players) and the 1st Party LeaderboardFreeroll they ran, also last year. But I REALLY wanted those wins, and I guess it shows that when the motivation is there, so are the results. (sorry for the BRM brag, couldn´t resist )
You obviously want to put in the time, so I suggest you Google "best MTT training site", you´ll run into the best out there somewhere on the first page. (can´t post links here, sorry) They do promos once in a while.
Good Luck!
------------
Posted by IceFingers: I dont know what it is, but i consider myself to be a great live tournament player, but for some reason I cannot play online, I do not know why, but i always seem to loose more than im winning on any site. I have a couple of good days, where i make a quick profilt, but then lose it in one day, i only play $1 SnG's.
Ill be sure to take your comments on board, and see if that improves my game
Funny, but I have the same impression. I started playing when Pokerstars organised a nationwide Event in Belgium/Holland, and actually made it to the final in Holland. First time I ever played NL Holdem. Joined BRM the same week, and started playing online.
But I loved the Live games!!!
Never had a chance to do it again, not much Poker on the Island that I know of, but I would LOVE to do that again. It´s such a different game. Watching your opponents trying to bluff you, intimidate, facial expressions, mannerisms, etc. Wow! Great stuff.
Even though people often say it isn´t, Live is SO different from Online in my opinion. Players like Phil Ivey, Gus Hansen, etc. do SO much better Live than Online.
I think it´s just a different game. Some people are just great at reading body language and spotting manerisms, and that is just completely missing from Online Poker. And manipulation through body language, the most important element. I don´t think you need to look any further than that IceFingers. Probably a lot of people will disagree, but i can argue the opposite for hours.
We went to watch a game in the Casino recently, and my best friend was just reading everyone at the tables. He´s bluffing, he´s scared, he´s holding a monster, he´s got financial problems...lol lol I´m pretty good at it too, but she´s incredible. Too bad she doesn´t want to play. the most difficult people to read are the "robot" and the "active talker/joker". They also had the biggest stacks.
They organise something once in a while, and when I get the chance, I´ll be going.
Edited by IslandJack (22 January 2012 @ 00:25 GMT)
Joined: Nov '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 102
Nice, I play in a poker league here in the UK, and from an 18month break from any poker, I took my first victory on thursday. I dont know why I find it very hard to win online. Although, I am trying to become a professional poker player at the moment by playing online, due to unemployment for 2 years due to a semi professional rugby injury, I cannot work, so looking to make money anyway I can, and keep a profitable income. I have started a blog in the blogs forum on BRM, "From Rags to Riches (Kind of) - Poker Blog" if you want to check it out.
Just FT'd my first MTT ever,
Maybe should not of said anything before playing that lol.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Spain
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 2851
Posted by djtopato: Better wrote a book and learn some money for wroting such a beautifuLL guide lines.Sng probably is your favorite.
lol
Maybe i should have made a deal with Admin. 100 Mob Points for viewing this thread.
I don´t play that many Sng´s. I get bored easily, and SnG´s are always the same. I love tournaments, they´re a Rush!
I only play these because the varience in tournaments is a bitch, and to keep my bankroll alive.
I just like to help people, BRM is kinda my Poker "home", and I see a lot of Members suffering at the micros. So i try to share some knowledge here.
Not to say that varience isn´t a bitch in SnG´s sometimes, but WAY less than Tournaments or Cash. So it´s a safer way to build a bankroll if you know what you´re doing.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 3361
Island, generally yes to the multi-table SnG's, but I do stick to the micros for the most part $1.10 to $5.50. Things have seemed to settle back down to my normal 2nd & 3rd place finishes out of every 5 games, but it keeps the BR stable and a lot of fun to with.
Looking for some sound advice to lasting out in the 100 to 500 player tournies where I seldom place top 10. Good Luck to You and All!
