Joined: Jun '10
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Here s a typical example of a move you should not make at this level at a DoN
UTG AQo --> never allin unless your not in top 5 you were in 5th position so realy not needed to steal blinds from that position. If you were in late position it is acceptable but still....
If I was diedlspielt I even would have not called your allin with AK (he was in 2 nd position and risked almostr all his chips) --> better let others do the dirty job then.
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You cant draw the line with such a "top 5 or not" rule,it depends on alot of other factors than just your current position. Here in this spot I'd also shove AQ,but it'd probably be bottom of my range. Reason for that being is even if you discount the 2 shortstacks,there's still 7 players left,and you cant just get there by simple folding. If do attempt to just fold through you will soon notice it wont work that easy and the moment you realize this you will have a stack that leaves you no fold equity,meaning you have to survive a showdown to gain chips. Fold equity is probably one of the most important things in SNG poker,something I have ignored for long as well,but if you fold this hand,you will go through the blinds leaving you with 3.5BB and only a low amount of fold equity (and besides,you're not even in the top 5 anymore then as mentioned). I've written it before,its important to think further than just the specific hand,just because something might be slightly -EV in this specific spot doesnt mean the play is -EV overall in the longterm.
Joined: Oct '11
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Thanks for your input guys!
As BeMyATMplz said, you can't get ITM by just folding. That's the main reason I shoved my AQ there. Getting those blinds would get me in a better position to get paid and the odds of getting a better hand soon to shove with isn't really all that great so I kinda figured it was all or nothing.
Joined: May '08
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Standard play. If we wait for a better hand than AQ 6-handed and with such high blinds, we will be blinded down in no time. Bad luck that opponent woke up with AK.
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Posted by thefly131: Here s a typical example of a move you should not make at this level at a DoN
UTG AQo --> never allin unless your not in top 5 you were in 5th position so realy not needed to steal blinds from that position. If you were in late position it is acceptable but still....
If I was diedlspielt I even would have not called your allin with AK (he was in 2 nd position and risked almostr all his chips) --> better let others do the dirty job then.
So He should wait for blinds to eat him? Or to get AA in next couple of hands? Still 9 people at table. In this situation you will get excited and shove AJ. AQ is absolute no brainer.
Joined: Feb '08
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The fsct that are top 5 when there are 10 left is not at all a factor here. If you fold every good spot you'll soon lose that. But the more important issue is that you are purely blinf stealing and you never want a csll. No one can call with less (eccept the bb). So you may as well push 9 10. But being utg with a definte caller in thr bb this is absolutely the wrong time to blind steal. The aq is misleading. I would shove it in lste position but not here.
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Posted by awood88: The fsct that are top 5 when there are 10 left is not at all a factor here. If you fold every good spot you'll soon lose that. But the more important issue is that you are purely blinf stealing and you never want a csll. No one can call with less (eccept the bb). So you may as well push 9 10. But being utg with a definte caller in thr bb this is absolutely the wrong time to blind steal. The aq is misleading. I would shove it in lste position but not here.
I can not agree with you. Its not same as shoving 10 9 at all. First, There are some hands that will almost snap here that are fliping with AQ and have 10 9 crashed. 99 1010 JJ are those hands. Also if guy that calls have QQ KK or AK you are having 3 outs (30% chance of winning) while with 10 9 you will have lot worse chances then that. Second, there are short stacks at table that will call with any A and probably way worse then that (just raising 2x is not an option with theese blinds). And third, never forget donks.If this is not some high stakes DoN you will get lot of time donks calling with AJ AT KQ and sometimes even with totally random hand because they are feeling lucky, they are in hurry or his favorite hand is Q3 of hearts. So, no its not even close to shoving 10 9.
Joined: Feb '11
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Posted by awood88: The fsct that are top 5 when there are 10 left is not at all a factor here. If you fold every good spot you'll soon lose that. But the more important issue is that you are purely blinf stealing and you never want a csll. No one can call with less (eccept the bb). So you may as well push 9 10. But being utg with a definte caller in thr bb this is absolutely the wrong time to blind steal. The aq is misleading. I would shove it in lste position but not here.
How is there a "definite caller" in the BB? THe guy has a (in comparison) healthy stack,so why should he be a definite caller? And no it's not the same at all,AQ is vs. a calling range in much better standings than T9.. T9 is crushed by all call-able PPs of 99+,for AQ the "domination" starts at QQ+,so the equity of AQ is much better than T9 here.. the "life cards" you were prolly thinking of are misleading here.
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Posted by jovicakralj: I can not agree with you. Its not same as shoving 10 9 at all. First, There are some hands that will almost snap here that are fliping with AQ and have 10 9 crashed. 99 1010 JJ are those hands. Also if guy that calls have QQ KK or AK you are having 3 outs (30% chance of winning) while with 10 9 you will have lot worse chances then that. Second, there are short stacks at table that will call with any A and probably way worse then that (just raising 2x is not an option with theese blinds). And third, never forget donks.If this is not some high stakes DoN you will get lot of time donks calling with AJ AT KQ and sometimes even with totally random hand because they are feeling lucky, they are in hurry or his favorite hand is Q3 of hearts. So, no its not even close to shoving 10 9.
To be clear I am not recommending shoving 9 10 here either, the point is that if you don't want a call under any circumstances you may as well have any two cards, the bigger point being that you don't shove anything less than QQ in this spot. You say that players will snap call with 99 and 1010 but that is not my experience at all. Players in DoN are usually quite tight and you can see by the fact that most players are short stack that none of them are parting with their stack lightly, even when they have less than 3/4bb they are prepared to fold middle pairs and KQ if someone goes all-in first. I might be wrong as I don't play DoNs very often but it seems to me that only players with one blind left will call an UTG middle-stack shove here with anything other than JJ, QQ KK AA or AK. And also you don't really want to have AQ called by 99. A flip with a short stack would be horrible here. Whilst it would be better than being dominated, you would still be behind, you would get called by someone with less chips which would effectively end your tournament but not give you the full advantage of doubling up, and you don't want to leave this kind of tourney to luck as they are already quite swingy and you don't want to turn the whole game into a flip.
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Posted by BeMyATMplz: How is there a "definite caller" in the BB? THe guy has a (in comparison) healthy stack,so why should he be a definite caller?
Sorry I was referring to the short-stack who has less than half the bb to complete but I misread the hh and thought he was the big blind. The point still stands. AQ is only 65% or so against any two live cards so stealing the blinds here with A high is really not worth risking your stack with 7 other dangerous callers behind you who could pick up a monster. The op is quite clear that he was stealing the blinds so I'm suggesting that UTG is the worst place to do that.
And also you don't really want to have AQ called by 99. A flip with a short stack would be horrible here.
I was comparing how 109 vs AQ in this spot. I didnt say that you want flip here. But with less then 5bb can you fold AQ? I dont think so. And ppl will be less willing to call with 77-JJ if you are shoving from early which is good because you dont want flip. If they have better hand-its cold deck.
Edited by jovicakralj (10 February 2013 @ 23:32 GMT)
typo?
