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dec
22

Phil Ivey and friend ordered to repay $10M to Atlantic City casino

Tags: Atlantic City, edge sorting, Phil Ivey.
Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2016 by "T".

Poker pro Phil Ivey and his friend is ordered to give back about $10.1 million that they won from the Borgata casino in Atlantic City while they were playing cards and using a technique called "edge sorting" to improve their chances of winning.

The damages include $9.6 million which they won doing edge sorting while playing baccarat on their four visits, plus an extra $504,000 that Ivey had won at craps with the use of his winnings from the baccarat games.

In October, US District Judge Noel Hillman had ruled that while Ivey and his friend Cheng Yin Sun did not commit fraud, they still breached their contract with the casino and thus were liable for damages.

The judge said that the breach was that they failed to follow the state's Casino Controls Act, which disallows marking cards. Even if they did not physically mark the cards, they were keen to notice any flaws or inconsistencies seen on the backs of the cards so that they can distinguish which ones (high or low-value cards) were coming up next.

Judge Hillman wrote in his decision on October, "Knowing the value of the card beforehand ... dramatically increased the odds their resulting bets would beat the house. And beat the house they did."

Ivey countersued the Borgata, demanding that he be compensated for damages and the suit against him be tossed out. He argued that it was the casino's fault for not noticing the inconsistencies on the back design of the cards. Being able to notice these inconsistencies and betting accordingly is not cheating or illegal, he said.
According to court documents, the set-up at the ‘sometimes days-long' Baccarat games at the casino, Ivey let Sun sit with him at the table. He requested that a Mandarin Chinese-speaking dealer tend to them, only one deck of purple Gemaco Borgata playing cards should be used for all their games, and it should only be shuffled by an automated shuffling device.

The design on the back of the cards weren't perfectly symmetrical, and this allowed Sun to discern the flaws on them - one edge had more of a geometrical pattern than the other.

If the card is of a high value, Sun would ask the dealer to rotate it so that the flaw would easily be identified when the card came back around.
Judge Hillman wrote, "Baccarat is a casino game well known for unique and superstitious rituals. Thus, Sun telling the dealer to turn a card in a certain way did not raise any red flags for Borgata."

The automated shuffling device will not disrupt the orientation of the card, so as the games went on for hours, the odds of winning for Ivey became bigger and as a result he was keen to place consistently high bets.
As stated in the court documents, within 16 hours Ivey won $2.4 million on his first visit at the casino in April 2012, with a max bet of $50,000. He then increased his max bet as he came back for more baccarat sessions in May, July and October. His best day was in July, where he bet about $89,000 a hand and won $4.8 million in 16 hours.
Upon learning that a casino in London was withholding Ivey's winnings from high-stakes Punto Banco games, the Borgata sued the poker player. Judge Hillman wrote, "The game is ‘essentially the same as Baccarat'and Ivey had made the same requests he made to the Borgata about the cards and Sun's presence."

Right after the judge's ruling, the Borgata casino submitted a request to use a formula for calculating damages that could be used as compensation, which amounted as high as $15.5 million ($5.4 million on top of the $10.1 million). This was based on a theory of what the casino might have won if the odds had not been heavily adjusted in the player's favor. The judge also rejected the request by Borgata that Ivey pay back $249,199 in comps - listed only as "goods and services" - that the casino gave him while he played there.

The judge ordered instead that the payment of $10.1 million that Ivey won in playing baccarat (and craps) be given back to the casino.

Ivey's attorney Ed Jacobs said that the judge found that his client "committed absolutely no fraud and followed every single rule of the game of Baccarat. Nonetheless, the judge disapproved of his gambling technique. This was simply a skilled patron of the casino combining his intellect, his visual acuity and his skills to beat the casino at his own game. He did absolutely nothing wrong, he never touched the cards. He was simply able to out-think and out-strategize the casino."

Jacobs said they are appealing, "This case is not over. That's round one, we will be back."

Source: http://abcnews.go.com/US/inside-card-trick-alleged-10-million-casino-scam/story?id=44300467

 


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31 comments for "Phil Ivey and friend ordered to repay $10M to Atlantic City casino"

 doubletop77712/22/2016 9:11:01 AM GMT
If the judge found that they 'committed no fraud and followed every single rule of the game of Baccarat', how on earth have they got to pay this money back? I find this baffling
 dule-vu12/22/2016 1:27:49 PM GMT
when they want to take you money,they will find way to do that!even if you do everything by the rules,still they have chance to be in profit and take you whatever they want!who know who have fingers in this judgment!
 TheMachineQC12/22/2016 5:58:34 PM GMT
What if he just decided not to pay? This casino is in the UK. Phil Ivey is american and can go to any country he wants, right? If he just never steps foot in the united kingdom again then could he keep his 10 millions?

I don't know about him but I wouldn't wanna give the biggest and most professional thieves in the world back the money I stole from them. Seems like a non sense... They're making that kinda money on a daily basis on working class people anyways.
 Mober12/22/2016 7:43:08 PM GMT
He wanted to go against the casinos. They have the money and the connections.
They can turn these rulings into their favor.
The question now is, does he have the money to repay back the casino
and will he retry, this so called "technique" ? Smile
 pochui12/22/2016 9:20:04 PM GMT
well this surely will drag on for a while and the guaranteed winners from this even without any edge sorting or any other fancy techniques will be the lawyers of both sides, however i think that even if ivey will lose the case, no one will find any money in his accounts, offshore banks to the rescue.
 kent197412/22/2016 9:36:27 PM GMT
This story is about three years. As far as I remember from previous publications, Phil was playing by the rules. Just casino, for obvious reasons, does not want to pay such a huge win. This trial will drag on for a Very long time. Let's see what happens Smile
 Ingrind3312/22/2016 10:36:55 PM GMT
Vile Ivirus.... Hmm, you know what, criminals are sad, but hey SOME, they just need to make some money, but this grasshopper looking fool was already having some money and he still needs to be a greedy person. You are nothing, if you want to scam a casino, you are nothing, but a primitive village conman, who survived by frauding others.. I have no sympathy , because this selfish guy has no empathy ..
 kent197412/22/2016 10:44:47 PM GMT
But I also do not sympathize with him. Just a statement of facts, nothing more. Blink
 Ingrind3312/22/2016 10:47:07 PM GMT
Posted by kent1974:
But I also do not sympathize with him. Just a statement of facts, nothing more. Blink


Yes, I understand, I just want to make clear how much of a bad piece of nature he is...
 kent197412/22/2016 10:53:30 PM GMT
Of course. But this is our world - dirt, disrespect , hypocrisy and lies. Sadly. Life is not equal Sad
 Skpmorita12/23/2016 7:47:12 AM GMT
What a judge .. Big Smile
It is like saying i know you didnt scam them but give the money back ..
Casino is at fault .. he didnt bring his cards with him .. he just noticed the mistakes the casino made ..
Everyone would do the same .. if i noticed that the card is gonna be high or low .. of course i would use that info for my benefit .. i m not gonna unnotice that and make myself lose ..
 dule-vu12/23/2016 1:35:17 PM GMT
they are all idiots and even I dont have anything from this,still would like that he dont pay them a single cent!because they want something,that they lost by the rules!so ivey take them everything and dont pay single cent!
 Tony_MON7ANA12/25/2016 10:16:16 PM GMT
$10 million is a hell of a lot of money for moderately affluent people. That kind of money might be written off nonchalantly if you are a super-rich billionaire. Ivey's wealthy friends might be able to help him monetarily.
 StheP12/25/2016 11:22:00 PM GMT
I dont know where I heard, but I think he lost apeal, and heve to pay not 10.1m$ but 16m$... realy cant remember where I read it... maybe its not true... but here is my opinion of the situation... they are both right, and they are both wrong at the same time... if you call this cheating, than he should pay casino... if you dont call this cheating, than he shouldnt pay casino... and by the way I think ingrind said that he didnt bring his own cards... actualy I think he requested for these cards that he knew that they are deformed... if lines on edges are higher, that means that id higher value card... if lines are lower, that means card value is lower... problem is casino agreed to his request's... so they should notice that cards are deformed.... well I dont know what to say... he is guilty, and also he isnt guilty...

------------
and I think this is a lot of money for ivey, and surely he will feal loss of it... also I dont think he have much real friends billionairs that will just pay for his friendship 16m$... there is no way someone would just drop 16m$, especialy those greedy billionairs... if they give up their money that easy, they wouldnt be billionaire...
 Tony_MON7ANA12/26/2016 12:11:58 AM GMT
Well, Phil Ivey's net worth is more than $100 million. He probably can pay the fine himself if his loaded friends or loyal backers won't help him out. The court might approve an installment payment plan. Yet, it will be a major blow to him financially.
 StheP12/26/2016 1:25:20 AM GMT
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Well, Phil Ivey's net worth is more than $100 million. He probably can pay the fine himself if his loaded friends or loyal backers won't help him out. The court might approve an installment payment plan. Yet, it will be a major blow to him financially.

I know it says on internet that he have 100m$ but I doubt it... I think he have much less than that... and losing this case will drop him so much on money list...
 ChromaKey12/26/2016 4:30:53 PM GMT
he was asked to cough up too to a london casino for edge sorting a while back...
 Mober12/26/2016 4:49:36 PM GMT
It wouldnt be a surprise if he is in a casino after casino looking for defective cards.
And while they will be looking for him in the future, most of the casinos,
the chances are that he will be able to make it again.
 Tony_MON7ANA12/26/2016 10:18:12 PM GMT
Phil Ivey's net worth might appear to be a bit of an exaggeration. The figure represents the combined worth of his entire fortune. It does not necessarily mean that he holds enough liquid assets or other types of assets that are readily expendable.
 Joebottrop12/27/2016 12:50:04 AM GMT
i dont understand, why phil still play ..didnt he earned enough also his wife left him cause of gambling ..
 StheP12/27/2016 12:53:05 AM GMT
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Phil Ivey's net worth might appear to be a bit of an exaggeration. The figure represents the combined worth of his entire fortune. It does not necessarily mean that he holds enough liquid assets or other types of assets that are readily expendable.

exactly what i was saiying... there is no way he has 100m$ and maybe he doesnt even have 10m$ on his holdings to pay this... and he maybe have to sell some properties...
 dule-vu12/27/2016 11:52:37 AM GMT
Posted by Joebottrop:
i dont understand, why phil still play ..didnt he earned enough also his wife left him cause of gambling ..


its same that you say,why some football player dont stop to play,even he earned 200 million in career!ivy love to play poker,he wants to win tournaments and why to take more money from that!he enjoy in poker and make he do that best in life,so why to change "job"!
 Kaz230512/27/2016 2:50:28 PM GMT
Absolute;y pathetic on behalf of the judge! Looks like someone could have been controlled by money somehow! The casino lost from their own fault as the player was smarter, but oh no, we can't have that! What a load of crap. I think good on him for figuring out what he had figured! I bet we wish we could all find a little something to turn the odds a little in our favour. Maybe if you do, dont gamble millions in one hit. What we learn from here is do not stand out with massive wins. I really hate when casino's become sore losers hey
 pochui12/27/2016 5:57:11 PM GMT
the more this drags on the less i actually get to know who is right and who is wrong, who did a good job on who, and who was left out in the pouring rain. this story really shows that at times even the good guys cannot be separated from the bad guys and the bad guys cannot be separated from those who do all the separation stuff. crazy story really.
 Mober12/27/2016 6:05:06 PM GMT
Gambling is what it is, gambling. At some point all these players need to stop
play professionally and turn somewhere esle, spending their energy.
That luck can ran out and then you just ruin what you were working for years, in a moment.
 bowie19841/1/2017 11:20:46 PM GMT
Posted by Mober:
Gambling is what it is, gambling. At some point all these players need to stop
play professionally and turn somewhere esle, spending their energy.

Tricking the casino into these shenanigans is very far from playing professionally IMO.
 Mober1/2/2017 7:16:30 PM GMT
I was talking about players in general and not Ivey.
Ivey probably has lost the ball with poker games and has turned into this game in order to make his
millions.
Which of course is not the right way to win, as i have mentioned already.
 bowie19841/6/2017 1:30:23 AM GMT
Posted by Mober:
I was talking about players in general and not Ivey.
Ivey probably has lost the ball with poker games and has turned into this game in order to make his
millions.
Which of course is not the right way to win, as i have mentioned already.

Yeah, but imagine being yourself as somebody with a brain like the one Ivey has - would it be so hard earning decent money without these unnecessary gimmicks? I think not. But he is probably seriously addicted to gambling by now.
 Mober1/7/2017 9:45:01 PM GMT
Like he is the only one addicted.
Probably the majority of them are.
When you see for example some pro's playing poker and then they start the silly side bets,
for some crazy amounts of money, or the prop bets in general, then you know for sure Smile
 bowie19841/8/2017 2:09:02 AM GMT
Posted by Mober:
When you see for example some pro's playing poker and then they start the silly side bets,
for some crazy amounts of money, or the prop bets in general, then you know for sure Smile

Yeah, I was always thinking those silly side bets are a form of bullying to some. Never really understood what boredom could bring to these people.
 pajalnick1/8/2017 9:45:16 AM GMT
I think this decision is wrong ... if the casino can not ensure their safety it is a problem and not the casino players .. of course for Phil, this amount is small but the solution principle it seems to me wrong ... good luck phil

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