Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 979
what do i do when my table has a vpip of like 50 and a pfr of just less then 10?! ive been nittin up so much and i hate it! im not sure how to play against this because im not much of a NLHE player?
should i just nit up and bet the nuts? i hate not being able to bluff!
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1660
Don't recognize those acronyms or the numbers that go along with them but I'm getting the impression you're having a hard time cracking an extremely loose table, right? The thing to do is value bet. Try play hands that are likely to draw you monsters ten when they catch you'll get paid big because no one seems to want to fold.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 979
this is why i dont play HE
PokerStars Game #66026053990: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD) - 2011/08/14 21:52:51 ET Table 'Amata II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button Seat 2: dwgsb ($0.72 in chips) Seat 3: E. Batisteza ($2.02 in chips) Seat 4: ioanan ($1.02 in chips) Seat 5: NicoGz83 ($3.46 in chips) Seat 6: sreeb42 ($2.98 in chips) Seat 7: JakeFauteux ($1.10 in chips) Seat 8: 666pitt ($1.92 in chips) Seat 9: camiola ($0.71 in chips) Jhon Orrego was removed from the table for failing to post dwgsb: posts small blind $0.01 E. Batisteza: posts big blind $0.02 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to JakeFauteux [Ks Kh] ioanan: raises $0.02 to $0.04 NicoGz83: folds sreeb42: folds JakeFauteux: raises $0.09 to $0.13 666pitt: calls $0.13 camiola: folds dwgsb: folds E. Batisteza: folds ioanan: calls $0.09 *** FLOP *** [Qs Ad Kd] ioanan: checks JakeFauteux: bets $0.34 666pitt: folds ioanan: calls $0.34 *** TURN *** [Qs Ad Kd] fran941 joins the table at seat #1 ioanan: bets $0.48 JakeFauteux: raises $0.15 to $0.63 and is all-in ioanan: calls $0.07 and is all-in Uncalled bet ($0.08) returned to JakeFauteux JakeFauteux said, "u know when u hate something but it happens anyways..." *** RIVER *** [Qs Ad Kd 5d] *** SHOW DOWN *** ioanan: shows [Tc Ts] (a straight, Ten to Ace) JakeFauteux: shows [Ks Kh] (three of a kind, Kings) ioanan collected $2.10 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot $2.20 | Rake $0.10 Board [Qs Ad Kd 5d Jh] Seat 2: dwgsb (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 3: E. Batisteza (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 4: ioanan showed [Tc Ts] and won ($2.10) with a straight, Ten to Ace Seat 5: NicoGz83 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: sreeb42 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: JakeFauteux showed [Ks Kh] and lost with three of a kind, Kings Seat 8: 666pitt folded on the Flop Seat 9: camiola (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Jibberish: what do i do when my table has a vpip of like 50 and a pfr of just less then 10?! ive been nittin up so much and i hate it! im not sure how to play against this because im not much of a NLHE player?
should i just nit up and bet the nuts? i hate not being able to bluff!
VPIP is voluntarily put $ in pot. It's a measure of how often a player will put money in to see the flop. This is measure solely based on how often they enter a pot to flop, wether it be raised or not.
The higher this number, the looser they are. You can use this number to loosely put them on a hand range as the % of this will somewhat match the % of hand ranges. Ie: A player with a VPIP of 16 is likely only playing 77 +, a10+, Kj+ and perhaps qj+.
PFR is the % that the player will open-raise or re-raise a hand preflop. Again you can somewhat figure a hand range based on this number in conjuction with VPIP to figure out a range.
Say a player has a VPIP of 30 and a PFR of 10. This means they are limp-calling with a large range of hands, and only raising premium hands.
VPIP + PFR + AF(Agression factor as well as the agression frequency) are the 3 main stats you need to be looking at when playing a hand.
If you're using a HUD that shows the table version of these, you need to realise that this is just the table average. It takes everyones stats and averages out by the # of players at the table.
Needless to say, you wanna be sitting at a table that has a high average VPIP as it will mean the players are very loose at that table. Just play tight good poker and you'll make a killing
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 979
i knew what vpip was lol, but anyone know how to make HEM carry stats over, because i did a tourney and everytime i started a new table everyones stats got reset, but there would be some people i played with already so its like ARRGHHH!
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Jibberish: i knew what vpip was lol, but anyone know how to make HEM carry stats over, because i did a tourney and everytime i started a new table everyones stats got reset, but there would be some people i played with already so its like ARRGHHH!
Hmmm, that definately shouldn't be the case. It should definately be displaying stats on anyone you have hands with.
I think there's a setting you can tinker with that will show stats only after you play xx hands. Try that.
On some rooms there were some issues with that, but I'm not sure how to fix it or if it was on PokerStars. But if you search it on google or so you should find the answer, because I'm 100% sure there is a way to fix it, perhaps it was something with the new PokerStars update and you don't have the newest HEM update - but it's just my guess.
And as for stats like 50/10 - don't think about it if it's after like 100 hands. My stats on NL5 SH were usually 21/19 or something close to that, but many times I've had session where after 100 or 200 hands on one table I had 9/8, on the other 40/30 because I've had a lot fishes there or I've had many good starting hands (sometimes I've had like 30/10 when I've had a lot of hands worth calling when somone raise etc.). So don't bother with that, you don't need to have the same stats every time you play.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 979
i dont think anyone actually paid any attention to my first point, i was asking for advice when the FR NLHE table was playing like it was PLO or a game of rush poker...
Damn, I misunderstood your post when I read it for the 1st time. In the first part of my post I answered to:
"because i did a tourney and everytime i started a new table everyones stats got reset, but there would be some people i played with already so its like ARRGHHH!"
But then, yep, I misunderstood what you said. So once again - you ask how to adjust to the 50/10 table? It depends on who you are playing with, what is your position. The table could by 50/10 with only two fishes (or even one!) and the rest could be some good players or nits. You need to adjust to players, not whole tables. When you have position on fish then you want to play a lot of hands with him, when you have nits on blinds then you steal from them... but probably you already know that. If the whole table plays like 50/10 then it's your choice how you react - if you are good postflop you don't have to nit up. If they are unpredictable postflop then you want to play with them only with strong hands, but still not just with premium hands, I'd say with like 18% which are all pocket pairs + all broadways.
So it's really up to you and of course it depends on your opponents.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 1242
Like LooseKiddie already wrote, it depends on the single players, the table average is just a hint that this table can be profitable, because of some very loose players. In my opinion you have to be patient and try to get involved with the calling stations with your good hands, they will pay you. Don´t try to bluff them! If you don´t want to play such tables / players, you have to move up in the limits, because in this absolut micro limit NL2 you will find a lot of such players.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1660
Awesome thanks for the detailed explanation of those acronyms. Can they only be reasonably computed by using software? Or are the short cuts or tips you can use to keep track of them yourself? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and make the move to software.
------------ Awesome thanks for the detailed explanation of those acronyms. Can they only be reasonably computed by using software? Or are the short cuts or tips you can use to keep track of them yourself? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and make the move to software.
Well... yes You have to buy holdem manager or poker tracker. It would be almost impossible to count those stats by yourself, even if you would play just one table. You have free trials on both HEM and PT3 (I think HEM has 30 and PT3 60 days, so you have 3 months free ), also you can earn money to buy HEM in HEM affiliate progra, when you make an account on some pokersite and then you have to earn points - it works just like almost every no deposit, deposit and reload bonus.
After you complete the offer you will be credited xx$ to spend in holdem manager shop - easy And last time I checkd it said that you can complete as many offers as you want, not just one, so let's say you get 75$ for offer, you complete 4 of them and you have 300$ to spend in HEM shop
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1660
Ha ha, sounds like I need to move my game into the 21st century. Thanks for pointing out those free trials, I'll definitely have to try them out. I heard there was some open source software that wasn't too bad to. If I get a chance I'll give that a shot too.
Against a very loose table, I think you have 2 choices:
You mix it up with them, but you have to hit because at these stakes most people are just calling stations or aggro donks. You nit it up, just like you did... Of course if you get unlucky it won't work but you still did the right thing!
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 979
arithmajik i suggest PT3 personally it will help you maximize a lot more value out of your play that by after 2 months of the trail you should have made an extra 60-70$ to pay for it, and HEM is only a 15 day trail i know i just got it 2 days ago because i let my PT3 HE run out but i started the PLO trail for PT3 so now i got both hehe
Posted by Arithmajik: Ha ha, sounds like I need to move my game into the 21st century. Thanks for pointing out those free trials, I'll definitely have to try them out. I heard there was some open source software that wasn't too bad to. If I get a chance I'll give that a shot too.
Thanks again.
Well, there is free tracking software, but well, I can't mention the name here because it would be an ad for BRM-like site in some way, so because of my respect for BRM I can't even say you how to find it, but if you'll google a bit about tracking software then you will find it Best of luck
------------
Posted by Jibberish: arithmajik i suggest PT3 personally it will help you maximize a lot more value out of your play that by after 2 months of the trail you should have made an extra 60-70$ to pay for it, and HEM is only a 15 day trail i know i just got it 2 days ago because i let my PT3 HE run out but i started the PLO trail for PT3 so now i got both hehe
Well, it's possible that it's 15 days, but if you actually want to buy one of them I think HEM is better (and probably more players use HEM). But you have free trials, so you just need to try it and you'll find out which one is better for you.
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 6669
From what i understand you got yourself on a very, very loose table, i mean a table vpip of 50 is just huge, i mean on no limit holdem you should have a vpip of 20 or so in order to be a profitable player...
On games like pot limit omaha a vpip of 30 would be ideal since there you can play more marginal hands from position
But on nlhe a table with vpip 50 is a very fishy table, you must play tight and very aggressive all good hands
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Arithmajik: Ha ha, sounds like I need to move my game into the 21st century. Thanks for pointing out those free trials, I'll definitely have to try them out. I heard there was some open source software that wasn't too bad to. If I get a chance I'll give that a shot too.
Thanks again.
I'd definately recommend Hold'em manager over poker tracker 3. Poker tracker was kinda buggy IMO and not nearly as comprehensive with stats as Hold'Em Manager. Plus Hold'em manager comes with Leak buster, which is an absolute MUST have if you play cash games, and Sit N Go Wizard which is absolutely critical if you play STT.
Also it comes with Table Ninja, which is for multi-tabling as it automates some of the processes, such as opening/closing tables for you.
Either way, get one. The Heads up display they have alone is worth the purchase, especially if you multi-table. I couldn't imagine playing without a HUD now.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1660
That's great, thanks for the tips guys, I'm definitely going to try out both of those trials and the features you recommended. Also thanks for confirming that LooseKiddie, I'll do some web browsing, definitely wouldn't switch to any other site though.
You have to buy holdem manager or 
), also you can earn money to buy HEM in HEM affiliate progra, when you make an account on some pokersite and then you have to earn points - it works just like almost every no deposit, deposit and reload 
i just got it 2 days ago because i let my PT3 HE run out but i started the PLO trail for PT3 so now i got both hehe 
Best of luck 
