Joined: Nov '09
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 25
type something when someone is all-in on full tilt poker? I've seen it done in the past but have never been able to do it. I know it has to be just 2 of you with one of you all-in. I know it's not a big deal, but it's just frustrating to not know how to do something.
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in correct forum, so I apologize if I'm not.
You cannot type anything in the chat box if another player has gone all in and there are still more than 2 people in the pot.
THis is to prevent colusion.
A perfect example of this was in the WSOP a few years ago, and I wish I could find the link about it.
Player A shoves all in.
Player B calls
Player C cals.
After the flop Player B says to Player C. I am happy to check it down. Player C says OK and they check it down to the river.
Player A turns over pocket Js
Player B turns over pocket 9s
Payer C has A Q suited.
The board read something like
Flop K 4 3
Turn 4
River Q
At the point when Player B said LETS CHECK IT DOWN, had he made a bet, player C would then have folded. Player A would have won the hand with two pair Js and 4s. Beating player B who had 9s and 4s.
However due to this agreement to check it down Player C was allowed to get to the river and hit the queen. This disadvantaged Player A who lost because the other two players made an agreement not to bet.
The dealer of the hand then called over the tournament director after Player A complained. THe touenament director declared both Player B and Player Cs hands dead, and awarded the pot to player A. He also gave both player B and player C a time penatly and a final warning..
So ultimately the whole purpose of this is to stop players colluding with one another, and ultimately cheating the all in raiser out of a potential win.
Spectators or other players who are not in the hand are also barred from speaking so as not to give any information to others left in the hand..
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I too have found this frustrating because I've seen ppl chat when someone is all in but I can't chat.
I'm talking about two ppl in the exact same situation, same hand. Neither of us are involved in the hand and they can type chat but I can't. I don't understand this at all.
I agree that people shouldn't be allowed to collude when one is all in but they shouldn't collude anyway and I think it is their responsibility, not full tilts. If they cheat they should be reported. And this all-in chat ban does not stop ppl from colluding.
It annoys me when I am in the middle of a conversation and can't say anything cos someone is all in. If it has nothing to do with the current hand, why should my chat be blocked on the off chance that I could persuade someone to call/fold. I'm not even in the hand...
Of course you can't and I think it's correct. You could say something to help another player or to damage him. You cold say '' I had an ace '' f.e. before oppo calls and in this case you could have a role in his decision.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by MANUEDO: Of course you can't and I think it's correct. You could say something to help another player or to damage him. You cold say '' I had an ace '' f.e. before oppo calls and in this case you could have a role in his decision.
Yeah but you could do this when a player isn't all in. I've seen ppl say things like 'omg I would have had a full house' as soon as the flop comes. I always tell such ppl to be quiet while play is still going on even if it helps me. I haven't seen much of this outside the micro levels though.
I mean you can't ban everyone just because some idiots break the rules, otherwise you should just ban chat during hands completely. And if there is only one person left to call, why shouldn't he be allowed to chat to the raiser. Providing no one else interferes, it is fair tactics to ask your opponent if he wants the call, or if he will show his hand.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: Lithuania
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 2805
never play on full tilt put puting all in is the same like in over poker sites if strength hand puting all in can help u to catch some donkeys and too earn some money
Posted by MANUEDO: Of course you can't and I think it's correct. You could say something to help another player or to damage him. You cold say '' I had an ace '' f.e. before oppo calls and in this case you could have a role in his decision.
Yeah but you could do this when a player isn't all in. I've seen ppl say things like 'omg I would have had a full house' as soon as the flop comes. I always tell such ppl to be quiet while play is still going on even if it helps me. I haven't seen much of this outside the micro levels though.
I mean you can't ban everyone just because some idiots break the rules, otherwise you should just ban chat during hands completely. And if there is only one person left to call, why shouldn't he be allowed to chat to the raiser. Providing no one else interferes, it is fair tactics to ask your opponent if he wants the call, or if he will show his hand.
Sorry i completely disagree.
If a player divulges information about hands they have folded then there should be a facility to call a tournament director. If he feels a player has done someting wrong then he should have hte power to give the player a time penalty or even disqualify them.
You wouldnt get away with it at a live casino, and you shouldnt be able to do it online.
Yes I can see a scenario whereby it would be usefull to ask a player if he wants a call, you have to weigh up the pros with the cons. Either you let everyone speak or you let no one speak. And for safeties sake its better to stop all chat.
Supposing you go all in UTG, does that give every player the right to ask if you want a call, and then give away possible information which could either deter or encourage others to call or fold.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 2193
Posted by fcumred: You cannot type anything in the chat box if another player has gone all in and there are still more than 2 people in the pot.
THis is to prevent colusion.
A perfect example of this was in the WSOP a few years ago, and I wish I could find the link about it.
Player A shoves all in.
Player B calls
Player C cals.
After the flop Player B says to Player C. I am happy to check it down. Player C says OK and they check it down to the river.
Player A turns over pocket Js
Player B turns over pocket 9s
Payer C has A Q suited.
The board read something like
Flop K 4 3
Turn 4
River Q
At the point when Player B said LETS CHECK IT DOWN, had he made a bet, player C would then have folded. Player A would have won the hand with two pair Js and 4s. Beating player B who had 9s and 4s.
However due to this agreement to check it down Player C was allowed to get to the river and hit the queen. This disadvantaged Player A who lost because the other two players made an agreement not to bet.
The dealer of the hand then called over the tournament director after Player A complained. THe touenament director declared both Player B and Player Cs hands dead, and awarded the pot to player A. He also gave both player B and player C a time penatly and a final warning..
So ultimately the whole purpose of this is to stop players colluding with one another, and ultimately cheating the all in raiser out of a potential win.
Spectators or other players who are not in the hand are also barred from speaking so as not to give any information to others left in the hand..
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by fcumred:
If a player divulges information about hands they have folded then there should be a facility to call a tournament director. If he feels a player has done someting wrong then he should have hte power to give the player a time penalty or even disqualify them.
I completely agree. I never said ppl should be allowed to give away anything, whether they believe it effects the hands or not. I am with you in that it should be easier to report this kind of thing. Scenarios like the one you described should not happen and those players should be penalised.
Posted by fcumred
Yes I can see a scenario whereby it would be usefull to ask a player if he wants a call, you have to weigh up the pros with the cons. Either you let everyone speak or you let no one speak. And for safeties sake its better to stop all chat.
Supposing you go all in UTG, does that give every player the right to ask if you want a call, and then give away possible information which could either deter or encourage others to call or fold.
No but as you say online casinos should be like real casinos. In which case the last player left in and only the last player in is allowed to ask this kind of thing. If you watch poker on TV you will see all the time professionals trying to get the player to talk and reveal some information about their hand but they are not allowed to do this if there is someone to act after them.
My point was that you can still show bad poker etiquette by talking about cards when a player isn't all in and it isn't always necessarily bad etiquette to talk whilst a player is all in.
What if the chip leader goes all in with two players left to act. The next player folds and now the last player isn't allowed to say 'I can't fold this - I think you have a small pair.' This doesn't hurt anyone. But if the chip leader raises enough to put both players all in without going all-in himself, the next player to act can now write something like 'definitely a bluff - but I can't call with this kicker.' This is not fair as it influences the next player but cos no one is all-in chat is not blocked.
In this case being classed as all-in makes no difference to the hand but one way both good and bad chat are allowed and in the other both good and bad chat are blocked. To say that it is better is not to take chances is ridiculous when the action of all-in sometimes makes absolutely no difference.
Posted by awood88 What if the chip leader goes all in with two players left to act. The next player folds and now the last player isn't allowed to say 'I can't fold this - I think you have a small pair.' This doesn't hurt anyone. But if the chip leader raises enough to put both players all in without going all-in himself, the next player to act can now write something like 'definitely a bluff - but I can't call with this kicker.' This is not fair as it influences the next player but cos no one is all-in chat is not blocked.
In this case being classed as all-in makes no difference to the hand but one way both good and bad chat are allowed and in the other both good and bad chat are blocked. To say that it is better is not to take chances is ridiculous when the action of all-in sometimes makes absolutely no difference.
You could argue that the player is not talking to the other and is merely running things through his mind using words, hoping to gain some slightest info from them.
You will often see pros, as you say directing their questions at their opponent, but how often does the pro ever reply. A good player doesnt answer...
Live games, theres far more psychology involved because you have that person sat there in front of you, and 90% of hte time you may be talking, but you arent doing it to influence a decision, you are doing it to try gain a read on them. Even a slight hand movement can give something away..
Thats not how it is in online poker. You cant gain any further info than the info you have in front of you unless of course hte opponent is an idiot and tells you what hes got....
Joined: Nov '09
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 25
I think it's great that my thread started this whole discussion. However, I don't think you guys go the gist of my original post. Let's say Player A raises utg to 5 times the bb and then everyone folds around to the big blind who goes all in. Now, you see there are only 2 people in the hand at this time. This is the point where I've seen both players able to chat. However, I have never been able to chat when someone is all-in even if it's just me and another person in the hand. It would be great to know how to and I was wondering if anyone here knew the secret.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Posted by fcumred:
You could argue that the player is not talking to the other and is merely running things through his mind using words, hoping to gain some slightest info from them.
You will often see pros, as you say directing their questions at their opponent, but how often does the pro ever reply. A good player doesnt answer...
Live games, theres far more psychology involved because you have that person sat there in front of you, and 90% of hte time you may be talking, but you arent doing it to influence a decision, you are doing it to try gain a read on them. Even a slight hand movement can give something away..
Thats not how it is in online poker. You cant gain any further info than the info you have in front of you unless of course hte opponent is an idiot and tells you what hes got....
Firstly you are the one who said that players shouldn't get away with things online that they can't do live in casinos. Well players can "get away" with chat when a player is all-in in casinos as it's not against the rules providing they don't give away any information that could affect those players still to act.
I would agree that you are unlikely to get more information from your opponent through chat when playing online. But there are plenty of other reasons why you would want to chat that would be well within the rules (in certain circumstances)
Some people like to show off and predict the hand before calling Some want to justify the call beforehand so that they don't get slated after You might want to wish the table good luck as it's likely you will be knocked out You might want to say 'wish me luck' or 'this is it' It could be seen as just another way of talking out loud, giving you confidence to call. You might want to comment on how you think this hand will turn out ie 'I feel a bad beat coming on' Or just continue the unrelated chat you were in the middle of.
------------
Posted by -pocket5s-: I think it's great that my thread started this whole discussion. However, I don't think you guys go the gist of my original post. Let's say Player A raises utg to 5 times the bb and then everyone folds around to the big blind who goes all in. Now, you see there are only 2 people in the hand at this time. This is the point where I've seen both players able to chat. However, I have never been able to chat when someone is all-in even if it's just me and another person in the hand. It would be great to know how to and I was wondering if anyone here knew the secret.
I too have noticed other people being able to chat when I couldn't. What fcumred and I have been mostly discussing is whether you should be allowed to chat in these circumstances. But as you say some people seem to have a way around this rule or for some reason full tilt has allowed them to chat. Sorry we went off topic a bit but in my original post I did say that it's odd how some people can chat in an all-in situation and some can't.
credit where credit is due
