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Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 3207
i am not a fan of min raises. personally when someone min raises i feel like goin over the top of them with any 2 cards...or just slapping them through the computer! just curious if there is a technique behind it? do u use it personally? and if so, what situations do you use it?. i find its very hard to put someone on a hand when doin so. i personally prefer 3X or 4X the blind
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
Ye i think anyone who knows about poker has encountered a ridiculous min raise and thought 'face palm'. But there are times when you get away with it or rather times when it's not quite so bad.
example the pot is 400 you have 1600 left and you catch a decent flop but far from the nuts and someone bets 150 before you. you need information so a raise to 300 sort of shows the initial raiser you have something whereas just calling encourages a continuation bluff on the turn which you can't call. Raising to 450 is more than 25% of your stack and if he calls the pot is as big as your stack so you are committed. Raising to 300 should scare away someone who c-bet the flop providing you are playing a decent player and decent limits.
Maybe I'm wrong with the example above but I would say that's reasonable. However the following just pisses me off. Blinds are 10 20. I raise to 60 UTG, maybe I have AK, and get four callers including small blind. Big blind then min raises to 100 wtf. I mean this happens a lot. And it's completely pointless cos no one can fold for an extra 40 with a pot of 400/440/480/520/560. Even worse what sometimes happens is we'll go round again calling the min-raise but then one of the people who just called first time suddenly feels his pair of 7s are good and ships it and the min-raise will fold. And I'll want to punch the screen...
Joined: Feb '10
Location: Canada
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 197
I min-raise sometimes with hands other than AA. I have learned never to slow play AA and rarely KK for that matter. I dont want my opponents 'crappy' hands to get a cheap flop to crack out my monster pockets....
Joined: Dec '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 2087
i cant stand people who only min raise anything in cash games it annoys the life out me but i will do it the odd time in some situations against certain people if i know they are nits and will fold to one as if you have a crap hand but the guy will fold to a min raise theres no point risking to much.
in tourneys its different because when the blinds get bigger a min raise often does the job but i prefer 2.5 or 3x. All this depends on the opponents after me and on if i have a hand or have a decent hand or if i have complete garbage. With As Ks i never min raise unless the people after me are all complete nits and i just min raise to get some action because they wont call a min raise with crap anyway. As awood says to alot to do with your own stack to and sieze of the blinds
All in all i do it sometimes but it all depends on opponents the image i have at the table and my position but people who only min raise i hate but as everything in poker there is lots of factors often i will just min raise because i hate limping its just asking to get raised so i will min raise i dont like anybody on the bb get in for nothing and it looks stronger when you bet after the flop ect.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6787
Usually they are a bad move. The blinds can call cheaply and it is an invitation to come over the top. Only in a tourney, when the blinds are high they can be ugly.
Joined: May '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1362
When I started playing I did quite a lot of minraising. Probably because I wasn't sure of what else to do. Now, I only minraise when I have the nuts and the villians rasie + my minraise, makes him pretty much potcommitted. I short of try to suck in his stack with a minraise, so to speak.
Or, when I wan't the opposition to think I'm a total superfish, then I like to sneak in a minraise or two preflop. Cheap way of making them lose respect for you, and then hit them in the neck with a set of A:s. Or something.
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 1859
Personally I despite min-raises. It just looks so weak,so I never do it no matter what. However,I like to do races of 2.2x to 2.5x often. You don't invest much more,but plays like that look alot stronger than a simple min-raise. The technique behind it is to get money into the pot,while at the same time keeping the pot at an amount you can still control it. In the later phase of a MTT it's totally standard not to raise more than 2.5x,because stacks are in the range of 20-40BB or less. If you have,lets say,a stack of 16BB and you make it 4x preflop,then you already invested 1/4 of your stack,making it much harder to give your hand up if you miss than if you wouldve just done a smaller raise.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
I usualy bet or raise 3x blind (when i began playing, i used to think this was tribet ) i thikn its the best way to give the other players the idea that i have a good game and only want to dispute that pot with someone in the same conditions. Mini raises are good for one situation: when you have nuts or think you are nuts and want others to raise your bet the max they can so you can win more, its a way to fill in the pot you already know you are going to win! If you aren't safe that you will win and you do a mini raise to try to scare, it will have the oposite effect in an experienced player, that will raise the bet and you will just drop your cards and cry for the lost chips. So, use it when you want to rob good players but, attention, dont do this in micro-low buy-in tables, because those will call with anything and will not understand what you are trying to do and, perhaps, they can even win with any two "stupid" cards.
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Short answer yes but not very often.
A min re-raise preflop gets them thinking...(the regs) looks like im holding AA,KK or QQ IMO and can get them to fold for very little, and if they play on I beleve they do so thinking they are behind and all most deffinetly play the rest of the hand scared. A normall min raise for me is a no no, why do I want to give them good odds, if I do I am letting people play me with crap and have to start a thread on how poker is rigged, Id also be losing a lot of value.. Now and then I might pull off a 3-bet min raise, again its a confusion thing, I do so pretty much knowing the villian will fold on a missed flop.
Joined: Nov '09
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 2387
Posted by awood88: Maybe I'm wrong with the example above but I would say that's reasonable. However the following just pisses me off. Blinds are 10 20. I raise to 60 UTG, maybe I have AK, and get four callers including small blind. Big blind then min raises to 100 wtf. I mean this happens a lot. And it's completely pointless cos no one can fold for an extra 40 with a pot of 400/440/480/520/560. Even worse what sometimes happens is we'll go round again calling the min-raise but then one of the people who just called first time suddenly feels his pair of 7s are good and ships it and the min-raise will fold. And I'll want to punch the screen...
Yeah, I see a lot of that too awood. Everybody is flat calling, someone at the end will min raise, everyone starts calling again and then someone pushes hard and min raiser quickly folds! I have to say “thank you” to a min raiser at my table last night, as I limped my AA UTG and instantly got a min raise, and then several called the min raise until it got me and I pushed a heavy reraise. Oh baby!
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
It really depends on the other players that are on the table. For example on regulars a min raise makes them fold the hand preflop, this s what i observed over the time, but this again it depends on which type of player you all. Even a min raise with a weak hand it's very credible if you are a tight player. On the other hand never do min raise against a fish. If it's neutral he will usually call or even respond with a min raise. If you join his game and you make another min raise he will do the same... Against a loose player that have a decent hand he will probably shove it all in or make a huge bet. In thsi cases it's much better if you do the regular 3x or more standard bet. Also if you are facing a reraise, make a more substantil raise than a min raise. You'll get a fold or an all in most of the times. Good luck to all!
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1242
Posted by mahdrof:
Posted by awood88: Maybe I'm wrong with the example above but I would say that's reasonable. However the following just pisses me off. Blinds are 10 20. I raise to 60 UTG, maybe I have AK, and get four callers including small blind. Big blind then min raises to 100 wtf. I mean this happens a lot. And it's completely pointless cos no one can fold for an extra 40 with a pot of 400/440/480/520/560. Even worse what sometimes happens is we'll go round again calling the min-raise but then one of the people who just called first time suddenly feels his pair of 7s are good and ships it and the min-raise will fold. And I'll want to punch the screen...
Yeah, I see a lot of that too awood. Everybody is flat calling, someone at the end will min raise, everyone starts calling again and then someone pushes hard and min raiser quickly folds! I have to say ?thank you? to a min raiser at my table last night, as I limped my AA UTG and instantly got a min raise, and then several called the min raise until it got me and I pushed a heavy reraise. Oh baby!
Well for sure these are the situations which I love too and where AA pays off (most times). For me I try to avoid minraises but sometimes I will do it, depending on situation and people behind me.
Joined: Oct '09
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 667
Hi Arsenej1. Nice thread as usual.
I have slow played AA & KK so many times - once saw an on-line video about it and thought I could do that, so to not the rule. Bad mistake, I would say 80% of the time I have been beaten by worse starting hands.
I have now tried to stop this habit - difficult when your used to doing that thing.
In some situations I use it all the time. If the situation is as the following: In a tournament, Above average stacked, with bigger blinds. I use the min raise with almost every hand, also with crappy hands and BIG hands. A lot of people fold because they want to move up the money ladder so you can pick up a lot of pots and blinds. Second big advantage is when someone comes over the top you know exactly where you stand and it's an easy fold with your crappy hands and in the other case when you have a big hand you can shove it all in or call. For the opponent it's very hard to put you on a hand, because you raise it every time. I suggest it only to some what experienced players, because if you get called with crappy or big hands you have to know when your beat.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Austria
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 5
yeah i guess for stealing purposes in sb or to play speculative hands from late position to either steal the blinds or to get enough calls to play them profitable. you also have an easy fold if you get re-raised!
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
Marc, thats a common mistake that many starting poker players are doing pretty often, i mean they want to slowplay a monster hand like pocket kings or pocket aces. The first mistake is that in your mind a moster hand like this one will always bring you a winning hand, which is false, i mean yes, preflop your chances on winning hte hand a huge compared to all other possible hands but that percentage can totally change on the flop most of the times. So the first thing is to always raise preflop or reraise with a monster hand, never limp with it. It's important to understand that KK or AA are simply a pair, that cuts a lot of your straight draw and flush draw possibilities compared to other hands like suited connector for example. By the way, got to say this but i started to win again with KK or AA on full tilt poker, all hands were played on rush poker NL10, one it was a raise, reraise in front of me and i soved all in with AdAh, they called, it was pocket kings and KT lol That was a nice 27 dollars pot, i will post the hand once i'll find it in holdem manager
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 49
sometimes it can be a good idea, like, if you need to force your opponent to show some info, and is he doesnt, and he calls, then you got a cheap turn and maybe complete your draw.
when your talking pre-flop, min raise (3xbb) is just textbook strategy if you have no callers and a premium hand right?
nothing worse then everyone reraising and calling..im ussualy the one who gets annoyed n put in that hudge bet tho 
) i thikn its the best way to give the other players the idea that i have a good game and only want to dispute that pot with someone in the same conditions. Mini raises are good for one situation: when you have nuts or think you are nuts and want others to raise your bet the max they can so you can win more, its a way to fill in the pot you already know you are going to win! If you aren't safe that you will win and you do a mini raise to try to scare, it will have the oposite effect in an experienced player, that will raise the bet and you will just drop your cards and cry for the lost chips. So, use it when you want to rob good players but, attention, dont do this in micro-low buy-in tables, because those will call with anything and will not understand what you are trying to do and, perhaps, they can even win with any two "stupid" cards.
