Joined: May '09
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Is it a bad idea 3 betting preflop with AK in mid stage of MTT when u have 40-60 BB against the tournament chipleader ?? thoughts for both early/late position
Joined: Jun '11
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In late position with no raise pre flop I would go for it most times early postion I would flat call and call any small raise see the flop. Most times you will get called pockets and aq aj at. Anyone calls with less unless they are really short or have a massive stack would be chancers at best. The problem is once you get one caller you might get more for pot value then you get the suited connected callers or just those who want to gamble. Of course you also losing to the trap so if anyone limps in with aa or even kk your most likely dead so look to see if anyone has been playing cute with huge pockets from previous hands.
The problem you get if you don't raise even in early position is someone makes 2 small pair and you get your ace or king. If you do raise in early postion you run into someone who re raises then you have a tough decision. Or you get more than one caller and you miss the flop then its real tough and most times your forced to fold or bluff
But I don't claim to be the expert but seems to me a decent way to get max value out of ak but others might say different to me
Joined: May '08
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If you are prepared to go broke with this hand, then yes 3bet. Of cause it depends a bit on how active the chip leader is at the table. Late position is better, if someone has called, we can raise bigger. Makes it easier on the flop.
If you have a loose image, go for it, a lot of people might go all in with AJ AQ or smaller pairs, and since its pretty early in the tournament, I wouldn't mind a race... If you're playing tight, then there's no point re-raising since people are gonna fold most of the hands that you dominate. I think you better call and see if you hit something on the flop. Hopefully your kicker will win you a big pot
The position is important but I think it's really more about the table image of the guy who re-raises you and/or your image. The thing is in small stakes MTT there is too many donks so you can't just fold AK pre flop early so I'd rather play this hand agressivly, especially if the chip leader is agressive (wich is usually the case).
Joined: Dec '09
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as said above depends on your image and if your prepared to ship all your chips if he shoves on you then its a sticky one. If the chip leader is playing good hands well i would prob call see a flop because then you can see what happens if you miss you could maybe out play him but then again if he is playing alot of nonsense hands 3 or 4 bet him make it expensive for his crap hand and if he ships it you wont be to worried to get it in. As said depends alot on his image and your image ranges ect. I am not a great fan of getting into races middle of a tourney unless i have a big pair as i like to play flops turns and rivers nearer the end when the blinds are massive well then lets getting flipping and its all go to take it down
Edited by Flippedchips (01 August 2011 @ 08:51 GMT)
Joined: Oct '09
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I agree with just about all of this. (Flipped) Shoving early and mid pre is out of the question for me. All well and good if you are playing $1-2 buy-ins. But if you do this on $10+ buy-ins, you soon be looking at your stats running into the -neg $100-1.000´s. (see it all the time with the low-pair all-ins and the AK-AQ-AJ early movers) Bad players don´t seem to realise that you lose a coinflip 1 out of 2 times. That means= 5 all-ins for your stack and you WILL almost always be out of the Tournament.
So for me:
Raise enough if limped pot. Just call decent raises and no 3-betting unless the table is super tight. Get the junk hands out if you can and see the flop. You will miss the flop 1 out of 3 times. Depending on the table you should know to fold or call or raise. But absolutely NO shame in folding if you get a lot of action after the flop you missed.
Just make sure if you DO 3 bet that you aren´t committed with most of your stack. Save that for the late "high-blind" game and final table, when they ARE premium cards in most situations and you are prepared to go all-in with the hand.
Basicly if you dont raise you automaticly price in most of the table specialy if the antes kick in...And that instantly puts you in a tough spot if someone out flops you especially if you pair 1 of your cards and still get outfloped...not a big fan of limping with any hand i prefer raising or folding...And not to talk about how much equity you have against hands like KJ suited KQ suited,AJ,AQ...even hands like JJ and QQ (less but still 45%)...AK is a hand that almost has the same strenght like JJ so Its definetley a raise specially suited...
Joined: May '09
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thx for replies everyone from now on i gonna try being a little less aggressive with AK till i reach the late stages of tournament, maybe i wud get better results
Joined: May '11
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you are always allowed to 3bet and even shove with AK in any hand unless u have a read on you opponent but the thing is, you shouldnt 3bet them if you know your the better player and can outplay them on future streets because your putting yourself at risk to a coinflip
but id still say a smallish 3bet is in order just be warey for the 4bet shove, i would only 3bet if i know the guy isnt a complete douche who will flip every hand
------------ u also want to 3bet if you are oop so then you have betting lead on the flop
Joined: Apr '11
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It really depends on the stats of the chip leader, if he is a maniac that reraises every had and has tons of luck it def worth to 3bet..
If he is a pretty tight player i think a good thing would be to call his bet and see the flop instead of 3 betting if you ask me, especially if you are out of position
Did you actually played a hand like this, you could post it in the hand histories forum to discuss it
Joined: Oct '09
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Posted by Jibberish: you are always allowed to 3bet and even shove with AK in any hand unless u have a read on you opponent but the thing is, you shouldnt 3bet them if you know your the better player and can outplay them on future streets because your putting yourself at risk to a coinflip
but id still say a smallish 3bet is in order just be warey for the 4bet shove, i would only 3bet if i know the guy isnt a complete douche who will flip every hand
------------ u also want to 3bet if you are oop so then you have betting lead on the flop
Lots of stuff I don´t get in that text...
"you are always allowed to 3bet and even shove with AK in any hand unless u have a read on you opponent"
So AK is a shove hand wherever you are in a tournament? So then how do you make the final table if you shove 2 high cards?
"u also want to 3bet if you are oop so then you have betting lead on the flop"
So what does that get you exactly, playing out of position, having absolutely no idea what anyone esle is holding after your 3-bet, except that they have a good pair of cards? Missing the flop and then raising again?
Sorry, don´t get any of that. Sounds like freeroll play, and bad freeroll play at that. This kind of play is what turns real Poker into mindless gambling IMO.
Ever made a final table playing this way? Where did you get this? Did you read it somewhere? I´d really like to know where people get this kind of info.
I agree with flipped and IslandJack. AK is not a hand you want to risk your stack with in mid tourney especially if you have a big stack. But early or late game, if the buy-in is below 5$, I definetly don't mind a race or just stealing the blinds or the original raise with AK because I also know that I dominate some hands.
Basicly, what we have to keep in mind playing AK is that: its usually strong pre flop then gets very weak on the flop if you don't hit. And it's also very easy to put a guy that 3bets on that particular hand so it makes it a good slow playing hand. Easy double up if you hit a set on the flop and the other player too, or a broadway straight!
Depends on wheather or not the blinds are at the near the money stage of the MTT and stack size relative to position. Table action tells me if I should steal or isolate attempt in early position. Being the first limper is not a viable option. In early position it's raise or fold. I'd rather be in a position preflop where the probability of high card winning is greater. Limping invites the 3bet lead out behind me. At this point I need to determine my course of action based on my stack size, table conditions, and the bubble. In a multiway pot that hand is flop dependant. Another option is if I think I'll lose the minimum if I miss I'll call a light reraise. It's easier to lay down. It's the old I flopped 2 pair and buddy floped a set,the board turrns into a boat instead of a flush or str8 at the river to watch out for. That hand has gone for and against me quite afew times and can be tricky to play correctly oop postflop. Where playing conservativly can cost me lots by being an underdog on the flop. Basically we're playing to reach beyond the bubble and have to pick our spots in order to advance. It's a strong hand but usually needs to improve to become a powerfull hand and probability for winning with TPTK are good. In early position I can let go of this hand followed by a raise and reraise and only lose the minimum which could be a 2.5-3.5BB bet to enter and at times in certain situations I may want to call a reaise oop because I can dominate alot of hand ranges. Guess there are no hard and fast rules on playin AK so when I play them oop I try the agreesive/conservative approach to see what comes back.
Much depends on a stack of the opponent. If at it has flown down less 20BB in you in you can play AK on a stack if it is more better a stake because with AK not always you get in flop.
id flat call and see what is on the flop. with 40-60 bb. The chances are that you should find a better spot further down the line, especially with the information on the other people in the tournemant
Joined: Feb '11
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Greeting LayedBacLuk and welcome to Bank Roll Mob.
This is an awesome thread. I've actually been doing this occasionally lately and I've been wondering if there's any merit to it. Thanks for asking the question. And thanks to all those who answered. Good luck everyone.
nearer the end when the blinds are massive well then lets getting flipping and its all go to take it down 
