Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
Hey Bankroll Mobbers, i hope everyone is stacking today. I go by Stupidrunk & I am fairly new to bankroll mob, however i ve been playing poker for a while and i ve been specializing in PLO for over a year and it has become my game of choice. I always find the 2 best ways to improve your game is a) play a sh1t load of hands, and b) talk with knowledgeable players about the game. Thus a thread was created! This is going to be a broad blog covering all types of theory, strategy etc. I am planning to get in a few hands over the weekend that i can dissect and discuses them with you guys'n'girls. I don’t have any hand recording software so that's going to be a little ol'skool but hopefully if enough people enjoy the blogs BRM will hook that up
Let’s talk about a very important part of a winning PLO player; starting hand selection! Basically to sum it up you want to be playing hands that make nut hands, and avoid the temptation to gamble with 2nd nut hands. “the biggest pots in PLO are bottom/middle set vs. top set, nut flushes vs, 2nd nut flushes, str8 draws vs. stronger ‘wrap’ draws etc” (Phil Galfond PLO seminar) these situations are inevitable it seems in PLO and what makes a winner from a loser is decreasing the possibility of flopping weak sets, weak draws like low str8 and non-nut flushes. Often new or less thoughtful players are whiling to get it all-in with these weaker hands. This is an exploitable leak that seasoned players lick their lips at. Let’s look at a few good starting hands and weak starting hands. STRONG = A (s) K (s) A (d) K (d) – double suited AK is possible the best preflop starting hand in PLO. This hand opens doors to flopping top set with an Ace or King, two nut flushes spades and diamonds, and broad way str8. I personally have no problem opening this hand in any position as well as getting it all-in preflop. The one possible leak is that opponents may know you have AAxx and be okay with calling you because often they can see a flop and with a hand that potentially is profitable against a weaker player over- valuing their AAxx. However with this hand you are wishing for action. Medium Weak = A (c) Q (h) 6 (h) 6 (d) – this is one of those hands that the gamblers seem to like to play along with less experienced NLH players that are playing PLO. Some of you may be thinking that this is a strong starting hand but in fact is rather weak. Why? Because at best you will flop a low set of 6’s, possible broad way, and a weak flush draw. An NLH player is licking their lips right about now but a PLO player is check-calling, at best. That doesn’t make this a horrible hand to play in position but you must proceed with caution with this one. Weak = 2 (h) 2 (s) 3 (d) 3 (c) – This is a very weak hand that again, people seem to over-value in PLO, I see players calling 3bets out of position with this hand. Why is this bad? Because at best (other than flopping quads) you are going to flop the bottom set or a$$ end of a str8. SO remember play hands that flop strong and only draw to the nuts!!!! I hope you enjoyed the first instalment of the PLO blog & I look forward to hearing from you in the future. Good Luck Yours Truly Stupidrunk
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 6669
Pretty good write up, and i must agree with you since pot limit omaha is also my A game, the most two important things are position and a good hand selection...
From what i saw thats the hard part for all nlhe players that try plo, a good hand selection
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Nice thread, not played PLO for a fair while. Personally I never like to be AI pre, I feel PLO is very much a post flop game, the likes of AAxx tends to be a deathwish, unless suited. DS connectors for me, 2 pair is the average winning hand in NLHM, in PLO I think its actually a FH(on showdown). Personally when I play I like to take a hand before showdown, lots of the players tend to come from NLHM and are used to pre flop play but stumble a little on post, so if you are a little nifty its on the flop you get the chance to shine, but be aware PLO attracts chasers, so variance is a true bitch.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
Playing Raggedy Aces Hand example - A (h) A (s) 7 (c) 5 (c)
AAXX =
In the fine game of pot limit Omaha AAxx is like waking up the morning after with an ugly girl when you swore she was a 10/10. Blaming the JagerBombs is not a valid excuse! The same goes for AAxx; sure you might get lucky and score but far more often after the showdown you’re going to wish you never played the hand. Weak Aces in PLO are indeed a 2nd class ticket to the cashiers tab. This is a hand that I see day in and day out being way over valued even from ‘reg-ish’ players! I am not saying you should muck this hand instantly, but don’t be fooled by the beer-goggle affect raggedy Aces have. If you are in good position go ahead and open or call a standard raise, if you want to see a flop in poor position call or open moderately to eliminate other players from raising you. In PLO you are going to get more credit for opening hands in poor position. With the absence of suited Ace you are essentially playing the naked Aces for one thing, SET MINE!!!! I play raggedy AAxx the same way I would play a pocket 5’s in NLH; try and see a cheap flop if I don’t connect with the board I have no problems tossing my cards. This goes for all high pocket pairs since in PLO an over pair is a check/fold, or bet/fold move.
Hi and welcome, happy you chose to come here. I really like PLO and have cashed afrw times. I think this thread will help when I'm going thru those times when I need to make better decisions. Thanks for that.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Romania
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 32
Omaha PLO is pretty good because you can calculate your odds and play a lot of hands without risking to much of your stack..but it's also a disavantage because weak players tend to play almost all hands and in some cases it happens that they heat the board with very weak hands and that can cost you
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
@YOdiablo.
Hey thanks for the comment, I just wanted to point out that at least in my mind the one thing you claimed to be a disadvantage for me is the biggest advantage. Weak players who gamble are the main reason why i specialize in PLO. It is very unlikely in PLO you will get it all in the middle with a regular decent player with them drawing completely dead, now with the classic any four card gambler that is a semi-frequent situation. --A good tip for playing the weaker 'gamblers' is to put them on hand ranges. Observe what their calling hands are in & out of position, and what their betting hands are in & out of positions. Remember even a monkey can catch a hand!! So if they 3/4/5 bet they probably have a prime hand. --- Another tip is Loosen Or Tighten up. This is your decision. If you want to decrease some variance then tighten right up and play prime connected starting hands. Or,,,, loosen right up with the aim to be able to outplay them post flop. Disclaimer!!!!!!Players often get the sense they can 3bet semi-/bluff the ‘gambler’ in most hands without putting any thought into that action. Far from the profitable truth! With four hole cards and the knowledge that they are indeed ‘gamblers’ blindly check raising or 3 & 4 betting them especially when they call light is another 2nd class ticker to the cashiers tab.
Give it a try and hopefully your disadvantage becomes a profitable advantage!!! Best of luck!!! -Stupidrunk
------------ @rbdflyboy
It's great i can be of any help to you. I'll be posting a little more on pre-flop hand selection, as well as putting up a few hands for discussion some time soon.
-Stupidrunk
Edited by stupidrunk (03 December 2011 @ 00:18 GMT)
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
A few Hands Friday Night on 888poker I’m playing on two $25 6 max PLO tables Blinds .12/.25cent
Hand 1 The first interesting hand I was involved with was the 4th hand playing against a tight good reg who multi-tables 4-8 tables at once. That means he only has one range and it is of the best starting hands. I am in position and call the big blind with one other late position short stack and the two blinds left to act. I Have As6hKs8s, spades are my suite although i have a blocker or 3rd spade. Small blind folds and the Reg makes it .90C to go, short stack calls as do I. Obviously it is not a great hand, but in position I think the call is fine. Also i have played a tonne of hands with the reg and have knowledge of his style, & i believe the short stack would need to flop a monster in order to continue playing the hand. -----Flop is 9s 7d 2s Reg bets ¾ pot, short stack folds and I decide just to call. I only call because i don’t want to chase away any action, I have a strong hand drawing to the nut flush with a 5 or a Ten giving me a str8. Reg also has been known to give up after a call on the turn. ----Turn is 4d bringing 2 flush and more possible str8 draws. Reg checks and i think he has giving up on the hand as he often does. I Bet $3.20 into a pot of $5.36, ¾ bet. To my surprise he raises roughly pot $15.24. Since i don’t think i am ever folding the turn here my options are to call or shove the remainding $6.61 stack; i think the better of shoving just in case my monster draw doesn’t make it on the river and i can save the $6.61 for another hand. ----River is Tc I’ve made a straight and am pretty sure it is the best hand. At this point i think the reg could only have a few hands, mainly being AA99/AA77,AA97 & Nut diamond flush draw. Now i was expecting the reg to check fold or at best check call me down. However him being first to act he shoves, polarizing his hand to be any set & str8. I call & my str8 to the Ten is good winning a pot of just over $48. Reg ends up having Ac 2c Ad 5d.
Hand 2 Another hand i have KdKsTc3c in other words a very raggedy pair of Kings with a weak Ten hi flush and a 3c dangler. The only bright side is i am in position and it is only .25c to call. My call is only a set mine or str8 mine. Small blind decides to raise it up to $1.50, four players call the bet and I was very close to folding my crappy Kings. Getting 5 to 1 odds in dealer position i decide to call. ----Flop Td Kh 7h I have struck a King! Good, but a board like this in PLO with four other players calling a 6x big blind raise is not as attractive as it seems. There are flush draws and str8 draws galore. Let`s assume that an opponent has a hand to give me action, since this table is all regular players i have played with before & one short stack already folded I am only going to get action from a strong hand. I also assume no one has a set of T`s because i have one, and that i would get called and or raised by 77xx, so with that said my main concern here is a hand like Ah Jc 8h 6s; Nut flush draw with a huge wrap str8 draw. Using that hand as an example my hand is only 55.24% favourite to win with .55% equity essentiality a coin flip. So when it is checked to me i bet $7 which is just slightly under a pot sized bet. When all four opponents fold i am happy to win the hand. If i was called i am in position so if a scare card like a heart or Jack turns i have the possibility of checking behind for pot control and making a decision on the river.
Hand 3 This is an interesting hand and exploitable situation. I am small blind with Ac 4c 4s 7h, by no means a strong hand. So far one person calls from late position, i call & big blind checks. ----Flop 5J5 rainbow It makes cents (lol) to c-bet here so i go ahead and bet 3/4 pot first to act. I do this because it is very hard for another opponent to continue, unless they have a 5 or JJxx. This play is only a one time stab at this pot and i would only continue if i got lucky with a 4 on the turn or river and even then i am probably beat. Since the pot was checked preflop i can for the most part rule out JJxx and with my position i can easily rep a hand like J5xx.
Hand 4 This was by far the most confusing hand of the night. I am in middle position with TQJ8 rainbow, UTG calls and i make it .70c, 4 players call. I am 3rd to act. ---Flop Qs Jc 6C it`s a pretty good flop for me but an opponent could have a lot to draw to; str8s, flushes not to forget sets however less likely since i have a Q and a J. I am first to bet $2.40 into a pot of $3.57. i get one caller who has position on me. This isn’t that great since they can always just call if they are drawing, and if they hit they have the possibility of re-raising leaving me with a tough decision. I can guess the opponent has a flush draw, str8 draw or possibly a set of 6`s & that a str8 draw is going to be a little scared in this pot with the presence of a flush. From that thought process i am more likely up against a flush draw with str8 draws. ----Turn 4 h Pretty safe turn, time to get some value! I bet $5 into an $8.13 pot. Oh! The reason i think it is time to get some value is because a hand like 66xx would be re-raising when i bet here in order to price out any draws. I probably could have gotten a little more value in but it wasn`t that bad. The player calls and i am fairly sure he is drawing to a flush. ---River T h I’m not going to lie, i didn’t want to see a Ten peel on the river but from what i had gotten from the way the hand was played out i still thought my hand was good so i bet half the pot around $8. This bet way mainly a blocker to crush any ideas of my opponent bluffing me off this hand, as well i can easily have the str8 with AKxx and that is within my range. Opponent folds and i take it down.
I hope I get some good comments, feedbacks & reviews!!! Also i just want to say to anyone from BRM who is possibly reading this that your awesome site would be even more awesome with the addition of videos, and if possible hooking-up people like me with hand recording software! Just a thought! Thanks again! Yours Truly -Stupidrunk
Edited by stupidrunk (03 December 2011 @ 03:44 GMT)
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Hand 1 Classic donk bets, surprised to see a reg spewing here, one of the keys in being a winning player in any game is not to spew. Hand 2, Position played well here. Hand 3, That's luck IMO, I would have 3bet you there, possibly, or maby my weak side in PLO, in NLHE id be betting for sure(as if involved chances are id be opening) Hand4, Id probably have played light here. Obviously all hands are depending on the players there, with no stack sizes or image my thoughts are just that, no real cunning play, probably play that way when multitabling.
BTW, are you using a web cam for screen-shoots? If so just hit PrtScn button and paste into Paint, or use one of the many apps available.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
i have no clue how to get good pictures!! i used my blackberry lmfao can you explain how i can get quality pictures and screenshots. hand 3, is using a phil galfond tip called attacking a locked down board,, i do it a tonne and when i actually have the nutts i can easily respresent a bluff and get paid off.
Edited by stupidrunk (03 December 2011 @ 18:17 GMT)
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
no man i take notes instead, i dont play more than 4 tables at once, so i seem to gotten away with HUDs, i used them on FTP (RIP) and found i play better when i think about it myself, instead of just reffering to a vpip graph or fold to 3bet frequency.
Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 979
i read just the first hand of the 4 so far and yeah he c/r'd the turn to try and make any draws fold or to get as much in as possible with the best hand, imo aces in the hole is one of the hardest hands in to play in omaha, unless i flop a set i find it hard to play because u get so many flop donkeys who easily match up 2 pair with junk
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Canada
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 18
@B1gfoot
'Obviously all hands are depending on the players there, with no stack sizes or image my thoughts are just that, no real cunning play, probably play that way when multitabling.'
not clearly understanding what you are saying... is this in regards to hand 4 because i feel im a thoughtfull player.
lmfao can you explain how i can get quality pictures and screenshots. 
