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  9-Jan-12, 22:11   #1
Push or Fold 0 
lukasb 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1735
I've been playing stgs for some time now in micro levels ( $0,10 to 1$) grinding down points in brm no deposit bonus and after that is done trying to build a bankroll large enough to withstand variance as well as moving on to higher levels.
With that said i tried different approaches, trying to find a strategy that can get me to the money and still avoid suck outs by the universe of "calling stations" that populate the turns and rivers in poker universe, and so, my latest approach is the "push or fold" strategy. theres no middle term here, i wait for a good hand for a few rounds, push and show it if every one folds, and from then on i start to push every time im in position with any decent cards. i still dont know what the overall result will be but so far its working ok. im getting itm more often and suck outs reduced drastically still it feels like playing loto sometimes.
I guess im just tired of 3x betting and still being called by 7 2 Tongue
What do u guys think?

     
  9-Jan-12, 22:38   #2
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Not a good strategy,it will lose you value a lot of the time.
Having an aggressive push/fold game is good near bubble play because at these micros people will probably be tighter than they should be (with exceptions if you are bigstack and shove into other bigstack he may call wider than what mathematicly is correct),but before that this will surely lose you value.
If you get sucked out playing postflop then who cares? Fire up more games and keep grinding it out.

     
  10-Jan-12, 00:15   #3
  0 
jovicakralj 

Joined: Nov '10
Location: Serbia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 2075
Posted by lukasb:
I've been playing stgs for some time now in micro levels ( $0,10 to 1$) grinding down points in brm no deposit bonus and after that is done trying to build a bankroll large enough to withstand variance as well as moving on to higher levels.
With that said i tried different approaches, trying to find a strategy that can get me to the money and still avoid suck outs by the universe of "calling stations" that populate the turns and rivers in poker universe, and so, my latest approach is the "push or fold" strategy. theres no middle term here, i wait for a good hand for a few rounds, push and show it if every one folds, and from then on i start to push every time im in position with any decent cards. i still dont know what the overall result will be but so far its working ok. im getting itm more often and suck outs reduced drastically still it feels like playing loto sometimes.
I guess im just tired of 3x betting and still being called by 7 2 Tongue
What do u guys think?

On this levels Im sure it will work. Try to play turbo 1,5$ on PS that way. Once I needed to get lot f points for one day to achieve silver star status and I multitable 3,5$ 6max turbo this way and I was proofitable. Ofc you need to push only AQ+ and TT+ hands. Everything else is fold. So you need to fold AT in late, 99...

------------
And it is better for you to go all in with random hand and show. That way people will call your strong hands with rags

     
  10-Jan-12, 02:51   #4
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by jovicakralj:
Posted by lukasb:
I've been playing stgs for some time now in micro levels ( $0,10 to 1$) grinding down points in brm no deposit bonus and after that is done trying to build a bankroll large enough to withstand variance as well as moving on to higher levels.
With that said i tried different approaches, trying to find a strategy that can get me to the money and still avoid suck outs by the universe of "calling stations" that populate the turns and rivers in poker universe, and so, my latest approach is the "push or fold" strategy. theres no middle term here, i wait for a good hand for a few rounds, push and show it if every one folds, and from then on i start to push every time im in position with any decent cards. i still dont know what the overall result will be but so far its working ok. im getting itm more often and suck outs reduced drastically still it feels like playing loto sometimes.
I guess im just tired of 3x betting and still being called by 7 2 Tongue
What do u guys think?

On this levels Im sure it will work. Try to play turbo 1,5$ on PS that way. Once I needed to get lot f points for one day to achieve silver star status and I multitable 3,5$ 6max turbo this way and I was proofitable. Ofc you need to push only AQ+ and TT+ hands. Everything else is fold. So you need to fold AT in late, 99...

------------
And it is better for you to go all in with random hand and show. That way people will call your strong hands with rags


Yeah you're right,it's probably profitable,still by just playing a normal style with good play your EV is gonna be higher than with this Big Smile

     
  10-Jan-12, 04:11   #5
  0 
arthur72 

Joined: Mar '09
Location: Australia
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 325
I agree that push/fold strategy is not as profitable unless of course you just want to double up but thats just my opinion. Worship

     
  10-Jan-12, 05:51   #6
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6235
In normal speed tourneys i would not do it, but it may be playable in super hyper turbo games. If opponents are not braindead we will only be called by monsters, and than it is game over most of the time.

     
  10-Jan-12, 06:44   #7
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by lukasb:
I've been playing stgs for some time now in micro levels ( $0,10 to 1$) grinding down points in brm no deposit bonus and after that is done trying to build a bankroll large enough to withstand variance as well as moving on to higher levels.
With that said i tried different approaches, trying to find a strategy that can get me to the money and still avoid suck outs by the universe of "calling stations" that populate the turns and rivers in poker universe, and so, my latest approach is the "push or fold" strategy. theres no middle term here, i wait for a good hand for a few rounds, push and show it if every one folds, and from then on i start to push every time im in position with any decent cards. i still dont know what the overall result will be but so far its working ok. im getting itm more often and suck outs reduced drastically still it feels like playing loto sometimes.
I guess im just tired of 3x betting and still being called by 7 2 Tongue
What do u guys think?


Depending on how many blinds you have, this may or may not be a viable strategy. If you've got 10bb, you should be shove/fold anyways. Up to 20BB I think this strategy would be okay against the micro donks, since they have no idea what they are doing. Anything deeper, it's gunna be a bad idea no matter what.

Probably better to play standard poker, and let the donks chase. Even when they hit, they lose in the long run anyways.

     
  10-Jan-12, 09:38   #8
  0 
Chartoule 
Joined: May '09
Location: Spain
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 1261
Hi lukasb.

In levels 0,1$ - 2$ whatever strategy well thought is valid, as you say tons of calling stations and horrible players.

I don´t like much to play push or fold with more than 9bb. For an example: You´re in CO, do you push AQo in an opened hand with 2500 chips and levels 100/50?

     
  10-Jan-12, 11:27   #9
  0 
lukasb 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1735
Thx all for the replies Thumbs Up . I'm aware of the cons with this tactic and yes, i do lose a lot of value like BeMyATMplz mentioned but i try to compensate that playing a wider range of hands than i would normally do. If its profitable or not will still have to see, hopefully in short term it is and that's all i need.

Posted by Chartoule:
I don't like much to play push or fold with more than 9bb. For an example: You're in CO, do you push AQo in an opened hand with 2500 chips and levels 100/50?


As a normal rule i would not push in that situation but with this specific strategy in mind i would already be all-in pre-flop with that hand lol. Only depends on the table really.
with just limpers = push
up to 2 raisers = push
more than 1 all-in before me = fold

Still trimming the edges on this and i do make a few more variations when in chip lead, some well timed bluffs against mid stacks and so on. so far its not bad but time will say for sure Blink

     
  10-Jan-12, 11:34   #10
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
You can be passing a tilt phase… Last Sunday I lost a lot playing ring, always taking crazy calls, there’s nothing to do against that, they will always exist. I think you can find some of those guys till the $2 buy-in level, in $5 they will be less, but there are crazy guys everywhere!

     
  10-Jan-12, 11:43   #11
  0 
lukasb 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1735
Posted by Fakiry:
You can be passing a tilt phase� Last Sunday I lost a lot playing ring, always taking crazy calls, there�s nothing to do against that, they will always exist. I think you can find some of those guys till the $2 buy-in level, in $5 they will be less, but there are crazy guys everywhere!


Lol Fakiry it has nothing to do with tilt. It's something i'm trying out with a specific goal: grinding point requirements and move to highers levels at a faster rate. As i said before its just a test, we'll see out it works out with a wider hand sample.
cheers Blink

     
  10-Jan-12, 11:50   #12
  0 
vladthepesh 

Joined: Dec '11
Location: Romania
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 10
i make this in sng wizard, for is very good. Here is pozition and BB, and cards to make push first in hand. The top is when we have no ante and bottom when we ante. Maybe help you...
ATC = any two cards




     
  11-Jan-12, 18:17   #13
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Posted by vladthepesh:
i make this in sng wizard, for is very good. Here is pozition and BB, and cards to make push first in hand. The top is when we have no ante and bottom when we ante. Maybe help you...
ATC = any two cards





The ranges for the higher BB parts is way too tight,and I mean waaaaaaay too tight (even with 15BB you can easily push any A and any pocket profitably in SB).
SNGWiz is also not accurate most of the time when it comes to ICM because it doesnt include future play

     
  11-Jan-12, 18:26   #14
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8643
Posted by lukasb:
I've been playing stgs for some time now in micro levels ( $0,10 to 1$) grinding down points in brm no deposit bonus and after that is done trying to build a bankroll large enough to withstand variance as well as moving on to higher levels.
With that said i tried different approaches, trying to find a strategy that can get me to the money and still avoid suck outs by the universe of "calling stations" that populate the turns and rivers in poker universe, and so, my latest approach is the "push or fold" strategy. theres no middle term here, i wait for a good hand for a few rounds, push and show it if every one folds, and from then on i start to push every time im in position with any decent cards. i still dont know what the overall result will be but so far its working ok. im getting itm more often and suck outs reduced drastically still it feels like playing loto sometimes.
I guess im just tired of 3x betting and still being called by 7 2 Tongue
What do u guys think?


those micro stakes are a real beast to tame Big Smile there are lot's of strategies out there and enough "pro advice" if you want to check it out- but to me the best strategy is the one that works for you...and it doesn't matter if 9 guys out of 10 tell you that your strategy sucks - if it delivers the Dollar to you it is great Cool

     
  11-Jan-12, 22:47   #15
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
Must be very boring to play that way.

I think pretty much like ATM. Being sucked out on the turn or river usually means u made a good play before that. Most of the time, u wouldn't get sucked out because you have the best hand... Most micro players have no idea how to apply pot odds so I'm okay with overplaying good hands a bit, but not that much.

     
  12-Jan-12, 17:06   #16
  0 
DaCapo71 
Joined: Aug '10
Location: Germany
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 1712
At the micro levels you can play abc poker and standard moves. It´s not a good idea to go allin only with good hands because you have to much caller in every hand. Better make value bets against the calling stations and when you missed the flop you can easy fold and wait for better pushing situations.

     
  12-Jan-12, 22:53   #17
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by lukasb:
Thx all for the replies Thumbs Up . I'm aware of the cons with this tactic and yes, i do lose a lot of value like BeMyATMplz mentioned but i try to compensate that playing a wider range of hands than i would normally do. If its profitable or not will still have to see, hopefully in short term it is and that's all i need.

Posted by Chartoule:
I don't like much to play push or fold with more than 9bb. For an example: You're in CO, do you push AQo in an opened hand with 2500 chips and levels 100/50?


As a normal rule i would not push in that situation but with this specific strategy in mind i would already be all-in pre-flop with that hand lol. Only depends on the table really.
with just limpers = push
up to 2 raisers = push
more than 1 all-in before me = fold

Still trimming the edges on this and i do make a few more variations when in chip lead, some well timed bluffs against mid stacks and so on. so far its not bad but time will say for sure Blink



It sounds to me like you're not overly confident with your post flop game, and thus want to compensate by just playing shove/fold. You'll do a lot better off, if you just learn how to adjust to players like this, and outplay them post flop, rather than try and adapt a tactic that is likely very marginally +ev. I'd say the shove fold tactic will work against true idiots that have no concept of calling ranges. Anyone with half a brain will chew you up and spit you out if you play pure shove/fold.

Yes it sucks that donks will be donks and chase that miracle river call, but so much of your equity is going to come from outplaying these morons.

     
  12-Jan-12, 23:10   #18
  0 
shaded 

Joined: Dec '09
Location: Serbia and Montenegro
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 279
All depends on what site you are on and what stakes u are playing, but even if ppl call ur 3bet with 72 u are still in the lead 99% of the time and push folding is never really an option unless u are close to 10 big blinds...

     
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