Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
So this hand is from a 345$ buy-in WSOP ring event. Beware this is a sad story. So the blinds start out at 25-25, every player started with 10K in starting chips, and this sad story takes place in the first level. A little history of how the first few minutes of the tournament went.... So the first hand of the tourney I limped UTG w 7s7c, a middle position player limped, an older gentleman we'll call him Oldtimer raises to 175, I flat call as does the middle position player. We(middle pos plyr & myself) check the flop to "old timer" who c-bets about 375. We both fold, no showdown. I then proceed to fold through about two orbit's, watching the old timer mix it up with just about every player at the table. This is where the sad part starts. In middle position I open to 150 with AhJh & get called by the old timer, the blinds fold. We see the flop of Ac4sQs heads up, I c-bet 350, he snap raises to 1000. At this point I was worried about a set or possibly Aces up, but I opted to re-raise to 3000, to see just how much he valued his hand. He snaps All-in, which by mixing it up he has accumulated just enough chips to have me covered. My brain is telling me to fold, it's the first round, it's your whole stack.... My heart tells me to call, he's the toughest player at the table, if you win this pot you cripple him and essentially will be able to control the table....I uncap my cards, but as I go to mutter the words fold, I hear myself saying " F**k it I call." " NIce call." the old timer says flipping over his As10s for tope pair a dominated kicker, but free-rolling with a flush draw. I tell the dealer to keep them red, but he peals off the 5 of spades to rail me about two minutes short of making it through the first blind round. After much self analyzation I do regret going out so early, but I was playing to win. I was not playing just to make the money. Hopefully this story of my first ever ring event will give you a laugh, I know I wasn't laughing at first, but I really do hate hearing "nice call." before the river is dealt. It's not a nice cal until I'm raking the pot! Until next time Mobster's.
You should have folded that in my opinion. Especially in a deepstack tournament. You were out of position and you had no clue where he was. I like the reraise like you said yourself to see where he is at. But why not listening to yourself and fold after his shove. I presume cause of his previous actions. Try to keep your head clear next time you play. First thing you should work on and get it out of your head is not worrying about your "tournament life" on the line. If you think about that during a hand you will surely get ran over sooner or later. Cause of that you ended up arguing with yourself "do i have the balls to call or not?" instead of relying on information you received by betting.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
I beg to differ. There is definitely more than one right or wrong way to win a hand. You see a I mentioned I was playing to win, i.e. accumulate enough chips in the two-day event to survive the rising blinds. When I called I was ahead albeit slightly, but alas still ahead. About a coin-flip I'd say, you must win coin-flips to win a tournament. I do try to avoid them early especially in deep-stack tournament's with long levels and a lot of chips. It's as I've heard old Doyle say though all you can really do in poker is put your money in with the best of it & hope your hand holds up. I've been the one in position with a worse hand pushing hard with my draws and got there, usually someone who thinks they know how to play poker tells me how lucky I am. The old timer used his position to his utmost advantage, but I did make a "good call", it just didn't stay a good call unfortunately. Thanks for your response though, I will definitely take it into consideration. This is not a hand I will soon forget. One final note, the old timer was literally pushing most of the player's @ the table around & I did decide that I wasn't going to get outplayed by sheer aggression. If I would've played the hand any differently it would've been to not put even a chip in the pot. Once I did open though, and the action played out as it did, I don't regret making the call. This was a player I had seen was clearly capable of making moves & I had also seen him make a lay down. In super hindsight I think the best play would've been to flat call his 1000k re-raise & shove when the 8h hit the turn, before he saw his rivered 5 of spade's, don't really see how he could call. All he did by getting it all-in on the flop was assure I wouldn't bet him of his top pair & a flush draw. How does he know I don't have a set of Aces, Queens, or Two pair? I certainly had not played that many hands. Two if you were counting while reading. Anyhow friend like they say, there is definitely more than one right way to play a hand.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
It's really hard to say wether you should have played the hand different, as you didn't really mention what you thought of his style, wether he was a LAG, or if he was just on a heater.
Personally, I'd lean toward folding, especially after he 5-bet jams on you. Sure he may be a donk but that's a pretty wet board, and there's absolutely no reason to ship your whole stack so early. I think you definately overplayed your ace, no offense.
Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 4827
I can’t imagine how you decide to enter your first ever ring event with a $345 buy-in? It was a bit high for a first time experience, I think. I have some friends who play good MTT’s and they are used to play with $11 and $22 buy-in MTTs, and their first experience live was in a $500 buy-in MTT. Sometimes we have no choice but to go for this if we want to gain experience, although that $500 were the buy-in of the main event and there were side events with $40 and $100 buy-in. Next time live, follow your brain, don’t follow your heart, at least while you are in stack disadvantage.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
The villain was clearly an aggressive player bullying the whole table in the first level. I know how it feels when all you want to do is take them down a peg. But I've never played at that kind of stakes so I know I would have been bricking it on that flop. Clearly the oldtimer as you call him does not care about the money, he is willing to lose it all in the first round of a deepstack tournament, in what is arguably very rash, risky and dumb play, but aggression is one way to win a tourney and he certainly could win several by playing like that. I hate that that's true because I really dislike this kind of bullyboy tactics at the poker table. Unlucky in this hand, I hope the next tournament goes better for you.
Joined: Aug '09
Location: United States
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 97
I definitely hate when someone says good call before the streets are complete . It happens to me occasionally and I'm sure the person saying it is trying to jinx themselves into getting ahead.
As for your hand, I honestly would check-call that flop . . . you've got a reasonably strong hand but no part of that draw and since you opted to bet so much of the pot instead, he set you up to augment the pot size on the flop. From how you described him, I think you have to consider it is very likely he has a combo draw on the flop and check-calling would have been a great way to set him up for a check-raise all-in on the turn. Considering the outcome as ceteris paribus, you would have lost anyway but I feel it would have been a better management of the pot, OOP before the turn and river.
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Serpang: He go all-in after your raise ?? I really don't understand he original expert ( with good instinct ) or real donk . He really lucky
Villains shove actually does make sense on the flop. He has top pair, decent kicker and he's got a flush draw. The flush draw alone gives him roughly 48% equity, and really the only hands that have him would be like AK, AJ AQ or some sort of raggy A for 2 pair. Villain made the correct play technically looking at it again. Op was an underdog after the flop, and only slightly ahead pre-flop. I think OP definately overplayed his ace, and definately let his desire to "take down the big stack bully" get in the way of out playing him.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
Thanks for the input Mobsters. I do believe I over valued my ace a bit, I do believe I mentioned that before as well, and that I thought I was about a coin flip on the flop. Oldtimer was uber aggressive, playing about 80-90% of the pots(his image to me). I believe a check, call, & play to take it away on the turn would've been a better play as well. Possibly gaining me the pot as even that draw looks shady when he doesn't hit it on the turn(which he didn't, he would've had to make it to the river for that 5s). 345$ a high buy in? There were much higher buy ins.
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Venezuela, Bolivarian Republic of
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 6
That was a pretty marginal call vs. that shove on the flop. He could easily have you dominated with AK, and even have you drawing very thin woth top two. His 4-bet should've told you something.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 852
Gotta have heart to win fellas, & an early chip lead helps as well. He could have had me drawing thin this is true, but he didn't. It's true my call could've been classified as a "crying call", but I was in a coin flip situation. Gotta win a few of those to win a tourney. I do usually try to avoid them early, in this particular case I didn't. It was only my first though boys, definitely not my last.
. It happens to me occasionally and I'm sure the person saying it is trying to jinx themselves into getting ahead.
