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  4-Apr-12, 19:50   #1
Toughest thing to master in this sick sick game 0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Opinions?

I think knowing when to fold is, especially when you've committed a lot of chips into a pot.

Patience would be the other thing.

     
  4-Apr-12, 19:51   #2
  0 
sadamman 

Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1204
Floating, I just don't know when to do it.

     
  4-Apr-12, 19:55   #3
  0 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
I think it is to fold a monster Hand like KK on a flopped ace or hands like that

     
  4-Apr-12, 20:01   #4
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
funny you mention floating - it's something I probably do too often and have been deliberately reigning myself in on it.

Essentially keep in mind that people only hit the flop 1/3 of the time and people nearly always continuation bet - some boards you can get a good feel on, that is you can tell if they hit or not, or whether its likely.

Otherwise, you're going on the pre-flop betting information.

The turn is the toughest street to bet on in many ways - and depending on the limits you're playing, people will call with crazy draws.

It's all about timing really - I've been burnt a good few times recently in tourneys doing this - but its possible I'm getting counter floated.

Being in good position and heads up makes this play the most successful to pull off usually.


     
  4-Apr-12, 20:05   #5
  0 
sadamman 

Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1204
I can do it in position, it's out of position I end up in a whole world of pain.

     
  4-Apr-12, 20:27   #6
  0 
jbrooksie 

Joined: Oct '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 442
The hardest skill to learn is gauging opponents hand range IMO.

     
  4-Apr-12, 21:08   #7
  0 
sadamman 

Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1204
Posted by jbrooksie:
The hardest skill to learn is gauging opponents hand range IMO.


Can be very hard I agree. But I always keep in mind, people who you see often, usually play extremely tight ranges.

------------
Posted by Hiesy:
I think it is to fold a monster Hand like KK on a flopped ace or hands like that


I can only do that in position, and still find it really hard. Out of position I usually shove regardless, get owned and tilt myself. Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
  4-Apr-12, 21:21   #8
  0 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
I know the problem of being out of position with a monster hand but i start to lay down sometimes my monsters also out of position but it is not easy Smile

     
  4-Apr-12, 21:48   #9
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by Hiesy:
I know the problem of being out of position with a monster hand but i start to lay down sometimes my monsters also out of position but it is not easy Smile


Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB

     
  4-Apr-12, 22:04   #10
  0 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
Posted by noonlion:

Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB


For me the biggest problem is to play JJ or QQ out of position when i bet and iget reraise i have to lay down and if i don't bet i give opponents a free card so it is really though playing pocket pairs where you don't hit a set postflop and there are overcards. Postflop early position JJ or QQ is also a big problem cause you want to get out all the bad cards but wants someone to call to get money from him so it is really terrible being in such a position but maybe someday i will learn how to play it Smile

     
  4-Apr-12, 22:20   #11
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by Hiesy:
Posted by noonlion:

Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB


For me the biggest problem is to play JJ or QQ out of position when i bet and iget reraise i have to lay down and if i don't bet i give opponents a free card so it is really though playing pocket pairs where you don't hit a set postflop and there are overcards. Postflop early position JJ or QQ is also a big problem cause you want to get out all the bad cards but wants someone to call to get money from him so it is really terrible being in such a position but maybe someday i will learn how to play it Smile


I think with JJ/QQ the major thing is the number of players to the flop. Any more than 2 (other than yourself) is far from ideal and you're in danger from all kinds of hands.

The worst is when you know someones played a ragged ass ace like A7off and they hit on the turn despite a hefty bet into the pot beforehand.

     
  4-Apr-12, 22:28   #12
  0 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
Posted by noonlion:
Posted by Hiesy:
Posted by noonlion:

Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB


For me the biggest problem is to play JJ or QQ out of position when i bet and iget reraise i have to lay down and if i don't bet i give opponents a free card so it is really though playing pocket pairs where you don't hit a set postflop and there are overcards. Postflop early position JJ or QQ is also a big problem cause you want to get out all the bad cards but wants someone to call to get money from him so it is really terrible being in such a position but maybe someday i will learn how to play it Smile


I think with JJ/QQ the major thing is the number of players to the flop. Any more than 2 (other than yourself) is far from ideal and you're in danger from all kinds of hands.

The worst is when you know someones played a ragged ass ace like A7off and they hit on the turn despite a hefty bet into the pot beforehand.




Yeah hate such players but we can do nothing against them so i try to play as good as i can and minimize my own faults. But sometimes we are just unlucky and that is one part of the game so we have to try to don't get on tilt and play our A-game.

     
  4-Apr-12, 22:46   #13
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by Hiesy:
I think it is to fold a monster Hand like KK on a flopped ace or hands like that


folding KK to an A on the board is easy IMHO. Playing / not folding KK when there is an A on the board is hard. Folding AA post-flop can be hard too.

Floating as somebody else mentioned; can be hard- although very valuable and profitable. But you need to learn when.


     
  4-Apr-12, 23:02   #14
  +3 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
This is a list that basically covers EVERY micro/low limit player.

1) Laying down AA: Ie-NOT overplaying AA. This is basically compounded when donks try and "slow play" pocket aces when there's 6 people in the pot.

2) Bet sizing. Seriously, I wanna bang my head every time I see some donk-fish throw out a 1 BB bet into a 50BB pot. Or a 50bb bet into a 10bb pot. Like how hard is it to just bet 1/2 the pot ffs?

3) How to fold pre. I don't care if 7 is your lucky #, that's no excuse to call a massive raise pre with 72o because "you had a feeling".

4) Draw odds and pot odds. An example of this is when someone bets pot, giving the donk poor odds to chase his gutshot, but he willingly will call any bet all the time because of "the feeling".

5) Stop Min-raising. Seriously, it's called discretion people. If you min-raise, you might as well just say "yes, I have a monster, please give me your chippies".

6) Dealing with Tilt. Seriously, I think this should be #1. Just because you lost 1 hand does not mean you should immediately shove your remaining 30+bb stack the next 3 hands in a row until you get snap-called by a monster and busted out.

7) Taking accountability. I'm talking to the rigtards here. You lost because you suck, not because xxx site is rigged.Deal with it and learn to play.

     
  5-Apr-12, 04:18   #15
  0 
Arithmajik 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1568
Greetings Noonlion, you've pretty much nailed it in my opinion. I know you're new here but are you new to poker? If so you're right, nothing will likely save you and make you as much money as this. Simply because you're often willing to throw down big even when your monsters are beat. Very costly mistake, that gets made all the time. Glad you've discovered better.

     
  5-Apr-12, 06:57   #16
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Posted by Hiesy:
Posted by noonlion:

Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB


For me the biggest problem is to play JJ or QQ out of position when i bet and iget reraise i have to lay down and if i don't bet i give opponents a free card so it is really though playing pocket pairs where you don't hit a set postflop and there are overcards. Postflop early position JJ or QQ is also a big problem cause you want to get out all the bad cards but wants someone to call to get money from him so it is really terrible being in such a position but maybe someday i will learn how to play it Smile



Even AA post flop become big problem when flop K Q x suited or not, lol Big Smile Big Smile .if we at early position. I likely follow theory / poker book. Not always bring us to best decision , but help many times. So far so good for me. Hope give you opinion Smile

     
  5-Apr-12, 15:07   #17
  0 
Hiesy 
Joined: Jul '11
Location: Germany
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 106
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by Hiesy:
Posted by noonlion:

Yeah.

The way I think of a hand preflop when i see it, especially if there's players to act, is don't get attached. Aces are just aces, queens are just queens etc...

The worst thing is having JJ or even QQ and having to act first, basically needing to pot commit and shove with 3-4 players to act/ or who have called the BB


For me the biggest problem is to play JJ or QQ out of position when i bet and iget reraise i have to lay down and if i don't bet i give opponents a free card so it is really though playing pocket pairs where you don't hit a set postflop and there are overcards. Postflop early position JJ or QQ is also a big problem cause you want to get out all the bad cards but wants someone to call to get money from him so it is really terrible being in such a position but maybe someday i will learn how to play it Smile



Even AA post flop become big problem when flop K Q x suited or not, lol Big Smile Big Smile .if we at early position. I likely follow theory / poker book. Not always bring us to best decision , but help many times. So far so good for me. Hope give you opinion Smile



I think you are right with the AA postflop play on a drawy board for me every pocket pair is really hard to play if you don´t hit set and even then for example you have QQ and the Flop comes Q J x 2 suited cards it is hard to play cause someone with a flush and str8 draw will call you normally maybe not in higher limits but in low limits they are calling so i started to play pairs and sets on drawy boards slowlyer than before cause normally their is another monster by one opponent. So i think the biggest think to learn is to be patience. Sorry for my bad english Smile

     
  5-Apr-12, 16:03   #18
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
Good subject! I really have the problem like others mentioned. It's hard to fold a hand that you have over 50% of your chips in or when your holding top pairs (KK, QQ, JJ) and the A falls on the flop. I don't know what is the best method to play these hands so I don't have a consisitent method. I mean, I don't always go Allin and I don't always slow play them. I'm hoping that means I'm getting better at my reads on other players, but who knows how well they do that?

Knowing when to fold'em! A tough decision at times!

     
  8-Apr-12, 15:50   #19
  0 
Arithmajik 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1568
Posted by Greenmohave:
Good subject! I really have the problem like others mentioned. It's hard to fold a hand that you have over 50% of your chips in or when your holding top pairs (KK, QQ, JJ) and the A falls on the flop. I don't know what is the best method to play these hands so I don't have a consisitent method. I mean, I don't always go Allin and I don't always slow play them. I'm hoping that means I'm getting better at my reads on other players, but who knows how well they do that?

Knowing when to fold'em! A tough decision at times!


It sucks when that happens but I find it easier to play if there's an over card than if there are draws. In the overcard situation, There's a very good chance you're already beat as someone had to call your sizable pre flop raise (You did raise pre flop didn't you) and they probably didn't call with low cards, maybe a lower set of pockets, but that's unlikely.

As for the drawing situation, raise, and raise hard. If they still call with a flush or straight draw you're getting your money in with good odds, and you should be happy about that, even if it doesn't work out that particular time.

     
  9-Apr-12, 01:19   #20
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by Arithmajik:
Posted by Greenmohave:
Good subject! I really have the problem like others mentioned. It's hard to fold a hand that you have over 50% of your chips in or when your holding top pairs (KK, QQ, JJ) and the A falls on the flop. I don't know what is the best method to play these hands so I don't have a consisitent method. I mean, I don't always go Allin and I don't always slow play them. I'm hoping that means I'm getting better at my reads on other players, but who knows how well they do that?

Knowing when to fold'em! A tough decision at times!


It sucks when that happens but I find it easier to play if there's an over card than if there are draws. In the overcard situation, There's a very good chance you're already beat as someone had to call your sizable pre flop raise (You did raise pre flop didn't you) and they probably didn't call with low cards, maybe a lower set of pockets, but that's unlikely.

As for the drawing situation, raise, and raise hard. If they still call with a flush or straight draw you're getting your money in with good odds, and you should be happy about that, even if it doesn't work out that particular time.


You mean its easier to call an all-in with a made hand against a suspected straight/flush draw?

I agree on that.

In a cash game it's a call for sure.

In a tournament it changes - depnds on stack size/ number to pot/ number behind you

     
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