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Bluffing Live or Electronic
 

  4-Jul-12, 17:17   #1
Bluffing Live versus Electronic 0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
I'm not one who bluffs to much at all and if I do it's not what you'd call your big allout bluff. I may bet if an A flops and I don't have one if I called against the BB & SB after they've checked. That's about my bluffing skills.

Anyway I watch live players and a bluff seems so much bigger and harder to call against as to when someone bluffs in electronic poker. I see the bluffers in electronic poker get beat out a lot. Of course, that's the ones I get to see.

Do you think it's easier to bluff a player face to face (live) versus electronic poker where as there's no face to face interaction? Sleepy

     
  4-Jul-12, 18:00   #2
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6229
As you can't give away reads as easily over the internet as at a real poker table, it is far easier to bluff online. Just be sure, that your opponent is capable of folding.


     
  4-Jul-12, 18:58   #3
  0 
B1gfoot 

Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 6714
Bluffing in general is easier on-line, but re-bluffs are much easier playing live.
Not bluffing is a sin in poker, the aim is to out play people.

     
  4-Jul-12, 19:04   #4
  0 
schmoyster 
Joined: Jul '09
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 758
Posted by Greenmohave:
Anyway I watch live players and a bluff seems so much bigger and harder to call against as to when someone bluffs in electronic poker.

In those live games people play for considerable amounts of money and bluff is one of the major components of the game. In online poker you play for much lesser money, so it is much easier to make a call. This is why bluff is almost a no-no on micro-limits.

     
  4-Jul-12, 20:10   #5
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
I think it's pretty clear that is so much easier to bluff when you play online compared to a live game...

Still i saw some live players that can bluff without a sweat and here i'm talking about Tom Dwan Smile

     
  4-Jul-12, 20:15   #6
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by Macubaas:
I think it's pretty clear that is so much easier to bluff when you play online compared to a live game...

Still i saw some live players that can bluff without a sweat and here i'm talking about Tom Dwan Smile


thats because it's impossible to have an upward winning trend if you don't - people that don't bluff or semi bluff enough are losing money in spots where the could be winning it instead.

     
  4-Jul-12, 23:57   #7
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Interesting. My initial thought was the same as everyone else. It's easier to bluff if you don't have to worry about showing emotion. But actually if you have a good poker face, as any good live player would, I actually think it is easier to bluff in live poker.

Bluffing is a key part to poker. All good players can do it. Most newbies bluff too much but there's no denying that if you only ever win with the best hand you won't consistently win. Bluffing is about choosing the right time, representing possible hands and reading your opponent's range. A c-bet with ace high is a bluff, a bet with a flush draw helps disguise your hand, and if you think your opponent is bluffing but you can't call, you should re-bluff with possibly the better hand.

The problem is, online it's harder to get people to give you credit. There are a lot more donks who will call you down with bottom pair. But even the moderately good players seem to think everyone is bluffing them all the time. And also in online tournaments, players are a lot more likely to take a risky call and buy into a different tourney, whereas in live poker if they make a bad call they are going home. I think players are also less likely to continually rebuy live so the calls are a lot harder.

Of course, if your sitting opposite a player who has just pushed all-in, you feel a lot more pressure, especially if he looks cool about it and his face doesn't give you any clues. In reality, if he is bluffing his heart will be racing and he won't feel very cool, but if he has reasonable poker skills and has judged the bluff well, then the pressure will get you to fold. Live players tend to take more time making decisions and it's easier to talk yourself into folding than calling.

     
  5-Jul-12, 08:18   #8
  0 
kinogomes 

Joined: Feb '10
Location: Portugal
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 998
Its easier to bluff online if you use data programs that tell you how your oponents play. btw poker sites shouldnt allow people to use data programs because its an advance for the other users that doesnt use them.

     
  5-Jul-12, 08:39   #9
  0 
sadamman 

Joined: Jan '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1204
Love the way you call it electronic poker it makes you sound all Victorian.

     
  5-Jul-12, 12:14   #10
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Posted by B1gfoot:
Bluffing in general is easier on-line, but re-bluffs are much easier playing live.
Not bluffing is a sin in poker, the aim is to out play people.



Absolutely right for me, I had many times got crap card at first or second hours. If not bluff why we can survive ? After got so many crap card then lost with good card , at that situation what should we do ? give up ? NO , of course. Better try to bluff with 'winning' crap card. Sometimes working, could survive and at mid MTT suddenly got good card and finally reach ITM. So bluff is needed Smile Smile

I no have comment for live poker cos I never play live Sad

     
  5-Jul-12, 12:37   #11
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
It’s more difficult to deal with a good bluffer live than on the net and it’s more difficult to be a good bluffer live than on the net. When playing live, factors like external body signs can affect the performance of the player in the game. If a bluffer sweats (ok, this doesn’t happen too much but it was the most obvious) or starts moving his hands a lot, a good watcher can easily notice it and will have that in consideration when reacting to the hand. Online, it will have much more to do with the number of times the same player will rob the blinds and it will be much more related to a continued performance, almost like a routine.

     
  5-Jul-12, 16:18   #12
  0 
hoodi420 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 852
The problem is you must define a "Bluff". Some players, especially very new players. Will bet & or call with any kind of pair. They may not have the best hand, but they know they have "something". In order to bluff there are also several key factors like your opponents betting patterns & table image(is he winning a lot of pots? are people folding to his/her bets? Is he losing a lot of pots?). What is your table image? You see when you are winning a lot of pots, it makes it much easier to bluff. Players tend to not want to call you, for fear that "you will have it again". The flip side of this coin is that you tend to get "called lighter" when you are losing a lot of pots, making it much harder to bluff. I think this holds true for both live & online poker. Now I did decide to vote "easier online..." and here's why: Players online don't have to fear socail awkwardness after a dumb play, or bluff. I mean sure people can type stuff, but that's an ignore button click away from problem solved. I think this also however allows other players to call a little more easily for the same reason. It really all comes down to betting patterns & telling a believable "story" when running a bluff. I try to work hard on my hand reading abilities. It makes it much easier to bluff an opponent live or online when ur 80-90% sure that they are wek & folding. Cool

     
  5-Jul-12, 17:24   #13
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 39 (F)
Posts: 10011
Havent ever played live but i have watched a few games on tv.
I think its much easier to bluff online cause you dont have to have a face there
that doesnt betray you.
And its not only the face, but plenty of moves.

Online you can bluff and pulling your hair Smile till the other players reaction Smile

     
  5-Jul-12, 17:35   #14
  0 
DaMessiah666 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Spain
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1487
I can't understand how there are some people who has voted 'easier playing live'. When somebody is playing live, he is always giving information eventhough he doesn't realize of it: putting the chips, your face, your body language, etc ... In online poker there is no place for extra information.

     
  5-Jul-12, 18:15   #15
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4852
I believe bluffing is about knowing the strength of your opponents and your own ability to represent a winning hand...even when you dont have one...so what yopu do when you do have awinning hand uis equally and perhaps more important. I think the rules and issues between online and face to face are totally different to each other.

     
  5-Jul-12, 20:41   #16
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8623
i think it's easier to bluff playing live- most of you probably won't agree with this, but that's my opinion. when you play live, bluffing is totally different thing as bluffing online- all the tells stuff, appearance, confidence (even faked) can create a lot better "image" of the bluff- you can sell the bluff in more ways, situations live that online. btw bluffing live is an art- bluffing online is pure strategy

     
  5-Jul-12, 22:00   #17
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
Definitely interesting to see everyone's opinions and hear your thoughts on this subject. Like I stated, I don't do much bluffing, but when I feel something is right I do it. i guess that's kind of what some of you mention. And, until reading the replies I didn't realize how much it is part of the game. Trickery if I may say! Knowing when to, knowing your opponents and having the nerve I guess is all part of it. Your all great!

     
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