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was once told to always go with a hunch there usally based on facts file'd deep in the back of your mind. we all no that in a big enough tourney a big poket pair is gonna fail you it is inevitable. can you smell when its coming and are you opponents acting differently even if only slightly mabbe taking a little bit longer o calling a bit quicker you cant read the signs but somthing in the back of you head is teling you somthing doesnt add up to the balance of probability, i often think when ive just folded 2 weak hands and see that they would won and get a nice pair to think m gonna get scewed over here. and often i do.if everythng works to a law of averages then when you strong hands fail you will it be a weaker hand that pays off? and just what is "sods" law, i could imagine its not a concept worth chasing but mabee there is more to it than meets the eye
Posted by 0HighTimes0: ( i have folded AA because i had feeling id lose and i would have, & other time's i gone in with shirt and won, sometime they be wrong or right, as intuition is the diff between Luck and skill and (good decisions)
This is just stupid. Any 'feeling' that AA is going to lose, or a rag hand is going to win. Is just based on an irrational thought process. For example - you might remember a similar pattern leading up to the AA (for example, the exact 4 hands you were dealt before you received AA were the same as another time when your AA got cracked). So your subconscious correctly identifies a pattern where you lost last time and you instinctively get a 'bad feeling in your gut' about the hand. However - while in other situations in life this may prove useful (remembering a pattern of events that had a negative outcome), in this particular situation it's an irrational process.
This is why it's so brilliant that we as humans can actually process thoughts and not just act on impulse/instinct.
Joined: Jan '12
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Haven't you ever seen a world class pro make a completely irrational play and it payed dividends. Yeah you can know as much about the mechanics and mathematics of poker as you like. There's swarms of other people who do and are still losing players. Maybe because they are so robotic they haven't incorporated gut instinct in their game. Some would be losing, because they have tried and they don't have a good gut. IMHO its a knife edge between genius and idiocy and the difference between a world class player and an average player is a good gut.
Posted by 0HighTimes0: ( i have folded AA because i had feeling id lose and i would have, & other time's i gone in with shirt and won, sometime they be wrong or right, as intuition is the diff between Luck and skill and (good decisions)
This is just stupid. Any 'feeling' that AA is going to lose, or a rag hand is going to win. Is just based on an irrational thought process. For example - you might remember a similar pattern leading up to the AA (for example, the exact 4 hands you were dealt before you received AA were the same as another time when your AA got cracked). So your subconscious correctly identifies a pattern where you lost last time and you instinctively get a 'bad feeling in your gut' about the hand. However - while in other situations in life this may prove useful (remembering a pattern of events that had a negative outcome), in this particular situation it's an irrational process.
This is why it's so brilliant that we as humans can actually process thoughts and not just act on impulse/instinct.
so are u saying if flush probably on community cards board (say Harts) on table, after flop not including turn/river, and u have AA (no harts) u still go in? AA gun's blazing on flush board LOL what if its straight board too or straightflush or Royal, AA gun's blazing lol thats stupid The cards going tell story, not pre constipation that AA going win all the time/or lose,
------------ All im saying is instinct/intuition can be difference between wining and losing, but that instinct/intuition should be based on, solid foundation of poker Maths / reads / skill, Making right/good decisions on thee cards we are dealt
Edited by 0HighTimes0 (03 August 2012 @ 21:48 GMT)
Posted by 0HighTimes0: ( i have folded AA because i had feeling id lose and i would have, & other time's i gone in with shirt and won, sometime they be wrong or right, as intuition is the diff between Luck and skill and (good decisions)
This is just stupid. Any 'feeling' that AA is going to lose, or a rag hand is going to win. Is just based on an irrational thought process. For example - you might remember a similar pattern leading up to the AA (for example, the exact 4 hands you were dealt before you received AA were the same as another time when your AA got cracked). So your subconscious correctly identifies a pattern where you lost last time and you instinctively get a 'bad feeling in your gut' about the hand. However - while in other situations in life this may prove useful (remembering a pattern of events that had a negative outcome), in this particular situation it's an irrational process.
This is why it's so brilliant that we as humans can actually process thoughts and not just act on impulse/instinct.
so are u saying if flush probably on community cards board (say Harts) on table, after flop not including turn/river, and u have AA (no harts) u still go in? AA gun's blazing on flush board LOL what if its straight board too or straightflush or Royal, AA gun's blazing lol thats stupid The cards going tell story, not pre constipation that AA going win all the time/or lose,
------------ All im saying is instinct/intuition can be difference between wining and losing, but that instinct/intuition should be based on, solid foundation of poker Maths / reads / skill, Making right/good decisions on thee cards we are dealt
I'm sorry, maybe I've mis-understood you. I think we're a little off track
What I mean is this:
If you're talking about saying folding AA preflop because you have a bad feeling you're going to miss the board / lose. Then that is irrational and stupid and there is literally no way your gut instinct could have any bearing on the cards to come.
If you mean post flop or something - where you have say a strong hand (maybe trips) but you just have a feeling you're beat and you can't quite place it, but maybe something about opponents betting pattern or something has triggered a flag in your mind.. Then in this case your instinct may be right. More so, I completely agree - it's sometimes these big calls / folds based on a gut feeling that can be a deciding factor in truly great poker skills.
Sorry - I was under the impression you were talking about superstition.. Like - you get dealt say 7,9 suited and you just have a feeling that you're going to hit the board in a massive way - that sort of thing is total rubbish and obviously a pathway to terrible results.
------------
Posted by 0HighTimes0:
so are u saying if flush probably on community cards board (say Harts) on table, after flop not including turn/river, and u have AA (no harts) u still go in? AA gun's blazing on flush board LOL what if its straight board too or straightflush or Royal, AA gun's blazing lol thats stupid The cards going tell story, not pre constipation that AA going win all the time/or lose,
This by the way has nothing to do with anything either of us said previously.. Not exactly sure what you think this has to do with 'gut instinct' - it's not exactly genius just because you can fold AA on a flushed / paired board. This is just normal rational poker playing.
Edited by jessthehuman (04 August 2012 @ 00:49 GMT)
Joined: Dec '08
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To make a long story short JesstheHuman hates superstition in poker. And he will always have some ammo to back up his opinion. Not that i agree what he's doing but he knows how to say things...
So dont try to discuss anything with Jess especially not about rigged online poker or anything about gut feelings because Jess always wants proof or he will bury you..
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Remco, like a few posts before you where being sycophantic toward jess, and now you're insulting/discrediting him. If you want to sit on the fence shut up and enjoy the show, but don't try to take both sides.
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Posted by sadamman: Remco, like a few posts before you where being sycophantic toward jess, and now you're insulting/discrediting him. If you want to sit on the fence shut up and enjoy the show, but don't try to take both sides.
Well Sadam ...I think he has done his part of insulting on this forum so i dont feel sorry. I think Jess can take it like a joke .. and not as serius as you are doing.
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Posted by remco2504:
Posted by sadamman: Remco, like a few posts before you where being sycophantic toward jess, and now you're insulting/discrediting him. If you want to sit on the fence shut up and enjoy the show, but don't try to take both sides.
Well Sadam ...I think he has done his part of insulting on this forum so i dont feel sorry. I think Jess can take it like a joke .. and not as serius as you are doing.
First off i was bit drunk when write posts and partying as most NZ was last night
I,m not here too insult anyone remco, and if i have, i not meant too, You have too, have respect for people IMO, there view's, culture's etc, every one has there opinion's, good or bad/ right/wrong, I was agreeing with Jess in a way as i understand what he was saying, just that sometimes gut feeling can save u IMO, what cards u chose, say if blinding out do u wait for AA etc (1st class hands), I don't think so as u maybe waiting all day/ week too get,
All good Jess, here (you have some/alot opinion's that i agree with, from past post's, but hay i don't agree with every thing u say and i don't expect u too agree with what i say ) All Thee Best Jess
Edited by 0HighTimes0 (04 August 2012 @ 12:32 GMT)
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Posted by remco2504: To make a long story short JesstheHuman hates superstition in poker.
I wouldn't say I hate it - anything like that is what helps serious players make a profit.. So I can't hate what makes me win. But it is stupid. Just like superstition in any aspect of life; stupid.
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Posted by sadamman: Whoever keeps thumbing up jess' useless comments where he's doing nothing but misdirecting....you're gay.
Whys nobody answering me? You can't only answer the things you're capable of answering, then avoid answering me.
Come at me bro.
Not even sure what you mean. If this:
------------
Posted by sadamman: Haven't you ever seen a world class pro make a completely irrational play and it payed dividends. Yeah you can know as much about the mechanics and mathematics of poker as you like. There's swarms of other people who do and are still losing players. Maybe because they are so robotic they haven't incorporated gut instinct in their game. Some would be losing, because they have tried and they don't have a good gut. IMHO its a knife edge between genius and idiocy and the difference between a world class player and an average player is a good gut.
Then this:
------------
Posted by jessthehuman:
What I mean is this:
If you're talking about saying folding AA preflop because you have a bad feeling you're going to miss the board / lose. Then that is irrational and stupid and there is literally no way your gut instinct could have any bearing on the cards to come.
If you mean post flop or something - where you have say a strong hand (maybe trips) but you just have a feeling you're beat and you can't quite place it, but maybe something about opponents betting pattern or something has triggered a flag in your mind.. Then in this case your instinct may be right. More so, I completely agree - it's sometimes these big calls / folds based on a gut feeling that can be a deciding factor in truly great poker skills.
Sorry - I was under the impression you were talking about superstition.. Like - you get dealt say 7,9 suited and you just have a feeling that you're going to hit the board in a massive way - that sort of thing is total rubbish and obviously a pathway to terrible results.
That was for you and HighTimes.
If you're talking about some other question you asked, then what?
------------ I conceded already a gut feeling can indeed be an important decision making process. But my final stance is - only so long as it has a rational foundation. If you want to dispute that
"come at me bro"
------------
Posted by sadamman: I get the feeling too, it may sound mad but its like you're psychic. I can literally call cards quite often. The thing is after a while, you start confusing that feeling with ego, then you get nervous about whether to trust it anymore. Its a really weird feeling, eg I'll get 24 off utg, my heart skips a beat and bizarrely my head instantly says call. Thing is, once its wrong, you start thinking, overthinking it, then your superpowers are more elusive.
This is just plain stupidity. Or, insanity, if you prefer.
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Insanity can only be determined by the society that judges it. Think about that one. True dat! Braaap!
Ok I'll rephrase obviously you're either too retarded or too damn stubborn to understand.
Haven't you ever seen a world class player (eg phil ivey, daniel negreanu, phil hellmuth, tom dwan) make a crazy play on something like 74 off, in a situation they should have nothing to do with, and the board hit big for them? You can't put that down icm or variance or any other technical jargon. Its just 'superstitious' instinct.
Plus haven't you ever heard poker players give money to charity because they feel they will run bad if they don't give something back to the more needy. Seems to me that 'superstition' is very prevalent even in the greatest poker minds.
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