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BankrollMob Forum » Hand Histories » Had to fold this.... didnt i ?

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  16-Sep-12, 17:59   #1
Had to fold this.... didnt i ? 0 
lukasb 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1735
This hand was when 14 players were left and this 90 ppl sngs pay from the top 12. So Im 5th in chips and im sitting on the immediate right to the chip leader. This guy is a total calling station, the problem is i saw him get lucky on the table one too many times already. this was what happened:

PokerStars Hand #86241095199: Tournament #614906009, $1.08+$0.27+$0.15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2012/09/16 3:02:27 CET [2012/09/15 21:02:27 ET]
Table '614906009 10' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 3: lukasema2 (10902 in chips)
Seat 4: serega311113 (25368 in chips)
Seat 5: Thiago UFOP (12115 in chips)
Seat 6: PokerKoter (13967 in chips)
Seat 7: steph crum (21059 in chips)
Seat 8: RedFlashhh (5522 in chips)
Seat 9: nei2301 (8205 in chips)
lukasema2: posts the ante 25
serega311113: posts the ante 25
Thiago UFOP: posts the ante 25
PokerKoter: posts the ante 25
steph crum: posts the ante 25
RedFlashhh: posts the ante 25
nei2301: posts the ante 25
RedFlashhh: posts small blind 125
nei2301: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lukasema2 [Kh Ks]
lukasema2: raises 750 to 1000
serega311113: calls 1000
Thiago UFOP: folds
PokerKoter: folds
steph crum: folds
RedFlashhh: folds
nei2301: calls 750
*** FLOP *** [3h 2h Qc]
nei2301: checks
lukasema2: bets 1500
serega311113: calls 1500
nei2301: folds
*** TURN *** [3h 2h Qc] Queen of spades
lukasema2: bets 1500
serega311113: raises 12000 to 13500
lukasema2: folds
Uncalled bet (12000) returned to serega311113
serega311113 collected 9300 from pot
serega311113: doesn't show hand

Felt sick the way i played this out... stupid bet on the turn and that reraise even if its not a Q in hand just f***** it up completely.

Edited by lukasb (Sunday, September 16, 2012 @ 18:19 GMT)


     
  16-Sep-12, 18:16   #2
  0 
WozzaMignun 
Joined: Oct '10
Location: Malta
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 44
Kid of hard to say. It is really up to the fact if you believed he would shove with the nuts rather than try to make a raise you might call. Looks like he was trying to make you fold a flush draw due to the size of your continuation bet. Personally I would say it was a +EV disciplined fold either way due to flush draw and QQ so good work.

     
  16-Sep-12, 18:35   #3
  0 
fatalsilence 
Joined: Apr '12
Location: Canada
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 82
Hard to say like Wozza said but most likley it was the right fold, folds like this are what keep most
of us in tourney running for the cash and keep the greedy ones out of the games, at this point i would of put my opponant on A-Q maybe even A-Q of hearts.

     
  16-Sep-12, 19:18   #4
  0 
magatt966 

Joined: Jan '09
Location: Italy
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 3713
Posted by lukasb:
Felt sick the way i played this out... was that reraise a Q in hand or not... still cant make it out.


This is not the point, you will nevewr know and I firmly believe you should not care at all about it.

Diid u win the tourney? Did u cashed in? Did chipleader bust out before you?

This are things that count imho.

Btw: nice fold Thumbs Up

everything imho

     
  16-Sep-12, 19:20   #5
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
If you fold a hand and do it to stay in the game to make the final table I wouldn't be to hard on yourself. Wozza and fatal provide good support statements for you, but just as far as advice goes I never regret folding a hand that I didn't have the nuts on in the first place.
I know I'm not good enough to provide a right or wrong analysis, but I do know when I fold a hand to stay alive I try not to think I did the wrong thing.

So how'd you finish anyway?

     
  16-Sep-12, 20:43   #6
  0 
noonlion 

Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 1277
Definitely foldable.

You're not gonna beat any queen. Sure he might not have had jt, but you'd have needed a hero call to win and there wasn'tenough info really to give it away.

On the face of it i don't see them max shoving without a q or having hit a fullhouse maybe with pp.

He wanted you to call as opposed to raising you out the pot.

Good fold Thumbs Up

     
  16-Sep-12, 21:38   #7
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
2nd Queen dont scare me, i go all the way with this, bubble or not.

     
  16-Sep-12, 22:32   #8
  0 
grahamy27 
Joined: Dec '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 707
i think it was a good fold..survival is the key and hopefully u placed well...gd fold Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

     
  17-Sep-12, 06:17   #9
  0 
schmoyster 
Joined: Jul '09
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 758
I don't believe the villain had a Q. I believe your reluctant bet of 1500 at turn into a pot of around 7000 made your opponent think that you are not comfortable with your hand and that you are trying to play pot-control. So, he used the size of his stack to bluff you. Anyway, on these limits and with this board, KK is an instashove or call all-in.

     
  17-Sep-12, 06:44   #10
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
As played the fold ain't bad.. But it shouldn't have even been a decision, you should have pot-committed yourself already. Your flop and turn bets are far to small. Next time bet-size better and make a commitment decision BEFORE you bet on the turn - only bet if you plan to NEVER fold, otherwise you just donating chips by making a really weak bet and then folding to the re-raise.

     
  17-Sep-12, 08:46   #11
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman:
As played the fold ain't bad.. But it shouldn't have even been a decision, you should have pot-committed yourself already. Your flop and turn bets are far to small. Next time bet-size better and make a commitment decision BEFORE you bet on the turn - only bet if you plan to NEVER fold, otherwise you just donating chips by making a really weak bet and then folding to the re-raise.


Exactly this. You make a 4BB raise, which puts about what, 14BB into the pot with the dead money? 2/3 pot bet OTF means around 24BB on the turn with around 25BB left in your stack, no reason you're not either shipping it or checking OTT. Your bets are WAY to small. I'd say with all the dead money pre, even your PF raise is too small.

I don't think folding here's a good fold tbh. Wjat realistic hands do we see beating us here that'd be calling pre? AQ, KQ, Q10+ and AA. Sure villain could be holding 22 or 33 as well, but most people tend to tighten up around the bubble, so I just don't see them holding 22 or 33 unless they are a total lagtard.

On that note, any thinking player would be 3-betting something like AQ , I know I definitely would be on the bubble.

That said, villains shipping it near the bubble, which does tend to lead me to believe he's got something he feels is worth committing with. Still, you're beating so much of what he could be taking this line with. He very well could be playing something like 1010, and on the turn figures you don't have a queen and so he ships it. This is thinking beyond level 1, where you have to think of what your OPPONENT thinks YOU have.

Edited by retribution (Monday, September 17, 2012 @ 08:50 GMT)


     
  17-Sep-12, 09:16   #12
  0 
lukasb 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 1735
Thx for the replies guys. @ Jess And Retri, usually i would have called and if it was earlier in the tournament I guess we would know what was he holding after all.
The thing is i was seeing this guy calling preflop all the time and getting lucky too often with hands like Q4, J7 so he COULD be holding anything... I dont know, even for him the call preflop was too fast and casual and the one on the flop also. Just smelled funny.. that's why i hate my bet on the turn... the hand just slipped away from me and also did half my stack Sad

Well anyway, i did manage to triple up a couple of hands later and held so so in the finl table for some time. In the end it was actually this guy that kicked me out on a race with my 77 falling to his AQ s.
5th place... was not great but cant complain i guess the 6th place feels worst Big Smile

     
  17-Sep-12, 16:09   #13
  0 
Bassets 
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 47
Seems like a legit fold, since i have no clue about the opponent.

     
  17-Sep-12, 18:29   #14
  0 
pinku135 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: India
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 335
it seems to be the legit call you made !! the chances are 50 -50 he can hold a Q or a big time bluff!!

     
  17-Sep-12, 18:42   #15
  0 
beriberi 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 4
Nice fold!

     
  17-Sep-12, 19:14   #16
  0 
Doarulle 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Romania
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 1052
I think your fold was good Agree

     
  18-Sep-12, 05:38   #17
  0 
Mysik86 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 773
It was a good fold in my opinion... The most important things are:
- you still in tournament
- you have STRONG chances that you will be cashed

BTW, how this tournament end? You cashed? You lose before cash? Or maybe you won this tournament?

     
  18-Sep-12, 06:22   #18
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Mysik86:
It was a good fold in my opinion... The most important things are:
- you still in tournament
- you have STRONG chances that you will be cashed
BTW, how this tournament end? You cashed? You lose before cash? Or maybe you won this tournament?


I'd have to disagree with this. Losing half your stack on the bubble is a pretty bad spot to be in. In MTT'S, it's irrelevant how often you min-cash. You want to be eyeing top 3-4 spots, as that's where the bulk of the prize pool is. IMO KK is a monster hand, and you should be happily getting it in against someone. You want to be attacking and abusing weaker players, so that you've got the stack to make the FT.


Posted by lukasb:
Well anyway, i did manage to triple up a couple of hands later and held so so in the finl table for some time. In the end it was actually this guy that kicked me out on a race with my 77 falling to his AQ s.
5th place... was not great but cant complain i guess the 6th place feels worst


     
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