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  27-Sep-12, 10:20   #1
folding AA preflop 0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1343
Always thought I would never do this, but I did and I think it was the best thing to do.

situation : MTT , about 25 players left , top 20 in payout

I am on position 15

I am sitting in third position when I get AA
action in front bigstack raises 3 BB
I rerais up to 6 BB

player on the button goes all-in (has more chips then me)
player on the BB calls (has 2nd highest stack)
bigstack who raised initially goes also all-in

I fold

So player on the button calls (all-in)

Finish : player on the button wins with a tris of queens (had QQ)
and there was no ace on the table so would have lost

But the main reason to fold was that if I went all-in it would be versus 3 or 4 players.

I ended on the 12 th position

     
  27-Sep-12, 10:25   #2
  0 
Doarulle 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Romania
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 1052
REALLY ??? FOLD WITH AA AFTER RAISE :| SERRIOUSLY ? ARE YOU ENSANE ? Aww crap! If you don't want to play... just fold... no call no raise... i really can't understand what you want ? what you think they have when you fold ? pair of JOKERS ? if you goes all in pre-flop your stake was higher and you could finish best than 12th place... NEVER DO THIS AGAIN Big Smile

     
  27-Sep-12, 10:37   #3
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1343
AA is indead the best hand but versus 3 or 4 it s not unbeatable (actually it s never )

Even if I went all-in preflop first action, I would have lost this particular hand versus the pocket QQ

Remember with AA headsup you will win about 80% , with 3 the % lowers to 65% and with 4 even to 50%


     
  27-Sep-12, 10:37   #4
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
I guess it depends what your aim is. If you just want to cash then I guess you can fold but if you're going for a win then you should always call with AA. You would no doubt catapult to first after winning that hand. Yes sometimes aces lose and that would be a sick way to go but even against three other pairs you are still more than 50% to win the hand. As long as you would have use from having a massive stack you are far better off calling although you don't give us relative chip stacks.

     
  27-Sep-12, 10:53   #5
  0 
djpremier 
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 419
Posted by thefly131:

Remember with AA headsup you will win about 80% , with 3 the % lowers to 65% and with 4 even to 50%


that might be true but then with 4 players, you would get a quadruple stack in 50% of the times you go all in...

But when you're playing a satellite tournament it's sometimes OK to fold pocket aces if there are lots of short stacks and your enemy has bigger stack than you..You might just wanna wait till the shortstacks lose...
Since in satellites it doesnt matter if you are the first on 10th in chips if 20 get the ticket..

     
  27-Sep-12, 11:11   #6
  0 
MIGO14 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Germany
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1235
Posted by Doarulle:
REALLY ??? FOLD WITH AA AFTER RAISE :| SERRIOUSLY ? ARE YOU ENSANE ? Aww crap! If you don't want to play... just fold... no call no raise... i really can't understand what you want ? what you think they have when you fold ? pair of JOKERS ? if you goes all in pre-flop your stake was higher and you could finish best than 12th place... NEVER DO THIS AGAIN Big Smile


I guess you didn´t carefully read what he wrote regarding the reasons he did it.
He explained why he did this and I can understand his reasons.
Nevertheless I wouldn´t have done this, but thats my personal opinion.

     
  27-Sep-12, 11:13   #7
  0 
Mysik86 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 773
Always call with AA... imagine situation, that the player of the button hit Q and had QQQ and you will hit A and win pot with AAA... so with 4 of yours go all-in you will be BIGSTACK I think, and there is a big chance to win everything.
Of course, everything is change when you think ONLY about cash... even 1c

     
  27-Sep-12, 12:29   #8
  0 
Redvulture61 
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 155
Its not a good play regardless of the result of the hand. You are results oriented.

     
  27-Sep-12, 12:39   #9
  +1 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Awful fold. So so awful. Except if it's a satellite type game, or a DoN or some other weird form that distorts the ICM like that, you should NEVER fold AA pre flop. So bad, so so bad.

     
  27-Sep-12, 12:40   #10
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1343
Statistically i disagree as you only have a chance of 50 % left to win the pot.
Comparable when you play pocket pairs versus overpair you also have about 50 % chance to win.

eg pocket 55 vs AK

Personally I try to avoid multiple all-ins (risking my entire stack pre-flop) , only exception is when i am shortstack and even then I prefer to play vs 1 player

     
  27-Sep-12, 12:54   #11
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
In this situation I think you should have gone to the game. If you wanted to fold because of getting to the prizes, you should have done the first moment you acted. This way, getting scared after making a bet and thinking your aces could send you home at that moment, you only lost chips, which is bad.

     
  27-Sep-12, 13:03   #12
  0 
Redvulture61 
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 155
Posted by thefly131:
Statistically i disagree as you only have a chance of 50 % left to win the pot.
Comparable when you play pocket pairs versus overpair you also have about 50 % chance to win.

eg pocket 55 vs AK

Personally I try to avoid multiple all-ins (risking my entire stack pre-flop) , only exception is when i am shortstack and even then I prefer to play vs 1 player



Its statistically a bad fold.

If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.

     
  27-Sep-12, 14:19   #13
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
Posted by Redvulture61:
Its statistically a bad fold.

If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.


Aces suited, now that would be an extreme case. Big Smile It's not true that playing against worse hands means better odds. In fact the scenario you describe would be one of the best since AKs takes away an out and closer cards means less chance of a straight. I do agree though that in terms of ICM it's always going to be positive to play AA.

     
  27-Sep-12, 14:44   #14
  0 
Redvulture61 
Joined: Jan '12
Location: Australia
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 155
Posted by awood88:
Posted by Redvulture61:
Its statistically a bad fold.

If you put AKs KKs QQs AAs into poker stove you still have 64% equity in the hand which is an easy call, and that is an extreme case. Since i assume you play at the Micros your villains collectively probably have even worse than this which means the number could sometimes be bigger. Therefore you have played this hand like a weak tight fish and it was a very bad play -Ev negative play on your part. Unless your playing a satellite where you can just fold your way to victory its a snap call.


Aces suited, now that would be an extreme case. Big Smile It's not true that playing against worse hands means better odds. In fact the scenario you describe would be one of the best since AKs takes away an out and closer cards means less chance of a straight. I do agree though that in terms of ICM it's always going to be positive to play AA.



Ok lets say your opponents had Ad4d Ac4c QdQh vs pocket aces. Even then you will have 61% equity and a chance of making a monster stack its a call.

     
  27-Sep-12, 15:01   #15
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
His tactic just for win any prize, 20th position is ok ( maybe ? ). it's depend on bankroll, If have good enough bankroll and fold AA preflop I didn't agree. That action is very poor for me. we never know what card will we get after that. dead card for on hour is possibly ( I had a lot experience about that,
just play defend with medium stake finally got nothing, play aggressive with poor stake - finally got prize ) we can't avoid luck factor. Big Smile Big Smile

     
  27-Sep-12, 17:29   #16
  +1 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Please dont tell yourself this was a good fold.
This was such a horrible fold Sad
You had THE upportunity to become a very big stack even go for first, but you did not, you chickened out and you fold Sad

I am crying when i see this play Sad

------------
Edit: Btw very good thread Thumbs Up

     
  27-Sep-12, 17:44   #17
  0 
grahamy27 
Joined: Dec '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 707
Posted by doomdy:
Please dont tell yourself this was a good fold.
This was such a horrible fold Sad
You had THE upportunity to become a very big stack even go for first, but you did not, you chickened out and you fold Sad

I am crying when i see this play Sad

------------
Edit: Btw very good thread Thumbs Up


he wouldnt have won though the QQ hit trips. in hindsight it was a brilliant fold. i think everyone would have called or shoved.but i understand that by not wanting to bust out around the bubble after your raise then shoves and calls etc. you just wanted to fold and get out of there.

again it would have needed to be a big prize to win to jusitify folding AA.what did you receive and what type of game was it?

everyone is going to say how bad it was but again it was actually a brilliant fold! even pros fold As when alot of players call allins etc.

     
  27-Sep-12, 17:50   #18
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by jessthehuman:
Awful fold. So so awful. Except if it's a satellite type game, or a DoN or some other weird form that distorts the ICM like that, you should NEVER fold AA pre flop. So bad, so so bad.


That's pretty much the point I was going to make, but you beat me to it. There are very very few spots where it's mathmatically correct to fold AA, with the exception of these scenarios.

I remember a thread similar to this back on the FT forums, and it was basically unanimous that you should almost never fold aces. I mean if you can't get stacks in with AA pre, why the hell are you playing poker?

To OP all I can say is, you're using the fact that QQ sucked out with trips to justify your fold. This is being results oriented, and it's frankly not the right way to analyze your play. Like it was said, 4 way you're only 50% to win, but 50% of the time you quadruple up. XX% of the time you're busted out by the stack that has you covered, XX% of the time you lose to one of the lower stacks and don't bust but are crippled/short stack.

     
  27-Sep-12, 18:26   #19
  0 
slap_nuts666 
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Canada
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 30
Why Risk It? Put In That Situation,Most Would Just Go For Broke..Literally Lol In Your Situation. Would Have Been Sitting There Thinking Either

1- @##@$#$%$%$^%&^%^&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2- Well Tried My Best And Still Lost.Sucks Tho

Either way..You Would Have Missed Money When You Were Soooo Close To Place

Good Fold..Good Fold
Game Of Patience
Faith In Your Cards
Gut Feelings
Feel The Game
Know Your Enemy
Luck Of The Draw
So Many Variables
Fickle Game
Thumbs Up

Edited by slap_nuts666 (Thursday, September 27, 2012 @ 18:38 GMT)


     
  27-Sep-12, 18:31   #20
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
For everyone who says ''good fold'', you dont have a clue Sad

I did many times a preflop fold AA when i was playing tons off DoNs when the only thing what i wanted was getting itm where nr1 gets the same as nr5, also in satelites where every price is the same i can easily fold AA preflop, its even a no brainer for me.
But not in a MTT where top prices are at fianl table or better top3 or better nr1, this spot was spot on to get you there but OP didnt Sad

I like the thread, had no clue there are so many players who think this is good play Confused

     
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