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  8-Nov-12, 21:07   #1
Should We Call Fish Fish? 0 
Sorin888 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 2375
The idea of fish and sharks in poker is almost as old as the game itself. It is an excellent visualisation of how the poker ecology works; like a marine food chain: the majority of players are weak defenseless fish who get preyed upon by the select strong few who are the sharks. It is part of poker folklore and quite a fun one at that.
Spotting bad players, and how to avoid signalling you might be a bad player yourself.But should be using the word fish (or donkey) when we talk about inexperienced players, both behind their backs and at the tables?

     
  8-Nov-12, 21:52   #2
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
There's various contexts/angles in regards to this.. For example - the moral/ethical point of view: Surely Fish/Donkey is a derogative term and as such it's probably unfair to be 'abusing' somebody in such fashion - especially since it often just relates to a less experienced player, not somebody who is necessarily inherently stupid.

Then of course there is the "Meta Game" angle - or the "don't tap the tank" philosophy. That is to say - by pointing out to fish that they are fish - you may inadvertently school them. Obviously there is a negative expectation in schooling your opponents. It is obviously better to leave them in the dark about their poor play, in the hope that they will continue to make the same mistakes in the future and thus keep the game profitable. Once again, this raises ethical issues.

     
  8-Nov-12, 23:29   #3
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
[Mike Narrating] The rule is this:

You spot a man's tell, you don't say a fucking word.

Best poker movie EVER!

Like jess said, don't tap the glass. Fish will always be fish, as long as they think that there's nothing wrong with what they're doing. They'll be happy to donate their money to you, so why do anything to change that?

     
  8-Nov-12, 23:33   #4
  0 
Jibberish 

Joined: May '11
Location: Canada
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 979
i always tell the fishy that im just lucky today so they dont catch on

     
  8-Nov-12, 23:49   #5
  0 
saynothing 

Joined: Nov '12
Location: Canada
Age: 55 (F)
Posts: 589
I am not educated e'nuff to be part of this conversation, maybe some time soon tho

     
  9-Nov-12, 00:22   #6
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
Posted by Sorin888:
The idea of fish and sharks in poker is almost as old as the game itself. It is an excellent visualisation of how the poker ecology works; like a marine food chain: the majority of players are weak defenseless fish who get preyed upon by the select strong few who are the sharks. It is part of poker folklore and quite a fun one at that.
Spotting bad players, and how to avoid signalling you might be a bad player yourself.But should be using the word fish (or donkey) when we talk about inexperienced players, both behind their backs and at the tables?



i actually thought they were called fish because they're chasing a hand kind of like a fish chasing the bait or lure to catch it. Your theory seems logical could someone clarify what a fish is in poker? Guess I never really knew!

     
  9-Nov-12, 04:04   #7
  0 
fcumred 

Joined: Apr '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1238
Posted by Greenmohave:
Posted by Sorin888:
The idea of fish and sharks in poker is almost as old as the game itself. It is an excellent visualisation of how the poker ecology works; like a marine food chain: the majority of players are weak defenseless fish who get preyed upon by the select strong few who are the sharks. It is part of poker folklore and quite a fun one at that.
Spotting bad players, and how to avoid signalling you might be a bad player yourself.But should be using the word fish (or donkey) when we talk about inexperienced players, both behind their backs and at the tables?



i actually thought they were called fish because they're chasing a hand kind of like a fish chasing the bait or lure to catch it. Your theory seems logical could someone clarify what a fish is in poker? Guess I never really knew!



I am led to believe he termns fish and donkey come from the following

A fish is someone who will bite when the bait is put in front of them. ie they will chase the hand even though if they catch it they are highly likely to get caught.

A donkey comes from the fact that the alternative term for a donkey is an ASS. An ass being another word for A*****E.

A shark obviously is someone who catches all the fish and eats them for breakfast..


Thats how I read it.

THe irony is people call someone a fish if they get lucky and suckout. In my opinion a fish is someone who chases and chases knowing they are beaten but ignores pot odds and common sense and chases impossible hands ie callling all ins chasing gutshot draws then loses the hand. THey have then been caught like a fish in a net.

     
  9-Nov-12, 07:45   #8
  0 
AlexSimion 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 640
Actually the word fish used at the poker tables , mean a newbie player , beginner , one less educated in the art of poker , the donkey term is used for those bad players , a player who will re-raise u all-in with A 2 , a loose calling station Big Smile , and the list goes on Tongue.

     
  9-Nov-12, 07:55   #9
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8623
no really term "fish" had a different meaning:
f-cukin
i-diot
s-ay
h-allelujah

     
  9-Nov-12, 12:49   #10
  0 
SirPoncho 
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Germany
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 154
I would never call out somebody a fish infront of them or trying to teach them after they made a bad play or sucked out on me,just because you shouldnt try to teach them and let them just play.
if you are giving them advices they will maybe take it serious and learn from their mistakes and thats really not what you want

     
  9-Nov-12, 14:29   #11
  0 
Shooshly 
Joined: May '12
Location: Slovenia
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 35
Posted by Sorin888:
The idea of fish and sharks in poker is almost as old as the game itself. It is an excellent visualisation of how the poker ecology works; like a marine food chain: the majority of players are weak defenseless fish who get preyed upon by the select strong few who are the sharks. It is part of poker folklore and quite a fun one at that.
Spotting bad players, and how to avoid signalling you might be a bad player yourself.But should be using the word fish (or donkey) when we talk about inexperienced players, both behind their backs and at the tables?


It's a human tendency to gossip. Plus it gives people the satisfaction and the ego boom of stating they're better than somebody else.

As for calling them fish, it's just a term that defines his style of play. Same as donks, calling stations ect. Would it be wrong to call somebody way too tight "grandma" or "rock"? Doesn't make a difference, it's a term used to define a style of play. TAG and LAG are terms too, so why not complain about that? That's my thought.

As far as telling them they're fishes? If they don't take the time to study and improve their game, it's their own fault. You have numerous free sites on the net to help you improve your game. PS even have their own pokerschool so yeah. Anyone with a college degree can tell you that you that if you want to be good at something, you need to work on it. If they don't want to? Why, why bother?

If the fishes are your personal friends and you wish to help them, then go ahead and tell them. If not, let them be fish. Personally, I know a few fishes, but they're just that egoistic that they believe that they should be world champions but luck is working against them. Well, at least I tried.

My 2 cents.

     
  9-Nov-12, 15:08   #12
  0 
Weenie 
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Slovakia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 678
I dont like it too... But I am using it, only if I am in bad mood and I havent luck at table.. and for example someone is very agressive at table, I have shitty words like "keep fire fish" or "donkfest" Big Smile I hate myself sometimes Big Smile

     
  9-Nov-12, 15:32   #13
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
Almost everyone who plays knows these terms, why should you try to find a way to hide what you’re trying to say? You just have to take care on those talks in the chat because that’s what losing fishes want to use as an excuse to receive a ticket or having money refunded. If it seems like there was collusion in the game because of having two or more players identifying others as fish, the losers can try to call room’s attention to what you wrote. I never heard of anything happening between cents’ players, but room supporters should pay more attention to this type of situation. Even if you’re not using collusion, it will look like you are.

     
  9-Nov-12, 23:54   #14
  0 
Doarulle 
Joined: Sep '12
Location: Romania
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 1052
If we have respect we don't need to call them fish because we are the fish, that is a ugly word... even Daniel Negreanu can be a fish for Phill Hellmuth or Phil Ivey... Please stop to use that word... you insult the poker players... they are our future... if they get out from poker what can we win ? Think again before call a player F&&& Big Smile

     
  10-Nov-12, 10:00   #15
  0 
jbrooksie 

Joined: Oct '10
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 442
Interesting subject but OP should acknowledge that his post is lifted from a column on a poker training site that-shall-remain-nameless.

     
  10-Nov-12, 11:30   #16
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4847
Fish are Fish and Poker players are Poker players...... and just like fish of which there many a kind, there are many a kind of Poker player each doing their own thing at their own time that assists them to play the way they want to. Poker isnt about helping each other to know exactly what the other will do, just cos they have a pair of queens and call theree of four time the BB before the flop....or try to trap you with a bluff that doesnt quite come off!

Call people what you like, just dont do it offensively...which more poker players seem to be doing especially online as it has the usual anonymous big bad boy potential for people who in real life dont have the bottle!

     
  10-Nov-12, 23:54   #17
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
one time Dude sucked out on me then called me a Fish...calmly and politely told told him he was lucky to be able to hide behind his screen, He shut up and left shortly after.

     
  11-Nov-12, 00:11   #18
  0 
Stickylove 
Joined: May '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 11
Sounds like you're a real internet hero. Worship

im fish, and I damn well make sure others notice >
they expect me to play every hand retarded, so when I play a good hand I can always make them chip in and they get frustrated Aww crap!

     
  11-Nov-12, 03:17   #19
  0 
rbdflyboy 

Joined: Apr '11
Location: Canada
Age: 60 (M)
Posts: 1222
Posted by Stickylove:
Sounds like you're a real internet hero. Worship

im fish, and I damn well make sure others notice >
they expect me to play every hand retarded, so when I play a good hand I can always make them chip in and they get frustrated Aww crap!


Not really, you know what your doing, it's a set up....that's different.

     
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