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  19-Nov-12, 06:28   #1
Intresting Spot 0 
Nightmare161 
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 86
Full Tilt Poker Game #31456569168: $1,000 Weekly Freeroll (243445118), Table 936 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 00:25:26 WET - 2012/11/19 [19:25:26 ET - 2012/11/18]
Seat 1: invite0765 (8,796)
Seat 2: Ace-from-Space1 (5,269)
Seat 3: Mike Erst (15,096)
Seat 4: Nightmare161 (178,478)
Seat 5: sale1005 (80,321)
Seat 6: GipsyLT (40,542)
Seat 7: Andrey Cruz92 (54,183)
Seat 8: 19oleg19 (79,866)
Seat 9: BOTEVRATZA (107,179)
invite0765 antes 300
Ace-from-Space1 antes 300
Mike Erst antes 300
Nightmare161 antes 300
sale1005 antes 300
GipsyLT antes 300
Andrey Cruz92 antes 300
19oleg19 antes 300
BOTEVRATZA antes 300
sale1005 posts the small blind of 1,200
GipsyLT posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Nightmare161 [Ts Td]
Andrey Cruz92 has 15 seconds left to act
Andrey Cruz92 raises to 5,800
19oleg19 folds
BOTEVRATZA folds
invite0765 has 15 seconds left to act
invite0765 folds
Ace-from-Space1 folds
Mike Erst folds
Nightmare161 calls 5,800
sale1005 calls 4,600
GipsyLT folds
*** FLOP *** [6c 8d 2s] (Total Pot: 22,500, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 bets 11,050
Nightmare161 calls 11,050
sale1005 calls 11,050
*** TURN *** [6c 8d 2s] Ace of diamonds (Total Pot: 55,650, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 checks
Nightmare161 checks
*** RIVER *** [6c 8d 2s Ad] 4 of clubs (Total Pot: 55,650, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 bets 37,033, and is all in.

What would you do? I will post the rest of the hand after some feedback and you should know i put Andrey on a weak/bluff hand and was more worried about Sale who had smooth called the flop and was still to act.





     
  19-Nov-12, 06:37   #2
  0 
Mysik86 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 773
Hmm... This is freeroll - so (I see that situation a lot of times), he may be passive player and he not bet with Ax, when it's on the flop, but he bet on river... I don't know how he played earlier... If he's aggressive, I suggest fold. If he bluff frequently - I suggest call.
And if he loose player, he may call with 57 and got straight with the river card...
You must provide more informations about his play Smile

     
  19-Nov-12, 06:41   #3
  0 
AlexSimion 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 640
Yeah ... I think at least one of them is holding an A in hand , probably you should've re-raised the flop , and see were it went from there .

     
  19-Nov-12, 07:28   #4
  0 
Nightmare161 
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 86


The only hand info i have is on Andrey and that he opened light Pre flop once before.

Posted by Mysik86:
Hmm... This is freeroll - so (I see that situation a lot of times), he may be passive player and he not bet with Ax, when it's on the flop, but he bet on river...


If your talking about Andrey he conbet the flop( 862r) and checked an A turn then shoved on a 4 river.



------------
Posted by AlexSimion:
Yeah ... I think at least one of them is holding an A in hand , probably you should've re-raised the flop , and see were it went from there .


The reason i never raised on the flop is i would have scarred off any bluff hands andrey was betting and i did not want to bloat the pot if Sale was going call/raise who was still to act.(plus it was dry flop)

Edited by Nightmare161 (Monday, November 19, 2012 @ 07:36 GMT)


     
  19-Nov-12, 08:50   #5
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Nightmare161:

1200/2400 Ante 300

Seat 4: Nightmare161 (178,478) Roughly 75BB
Seat 7: Andrey Cruz92 (54,183) Roughly 24BB
sale1005 posts the small blind of 1,200
GipsyLT posts the big blind of 2,400

2700 in dead money because of antes
3600 in dead money because of blinds.

Andrey Cruz92 raises to 5,800 leaving roughly 20BB behind.


Dealt to Nightmare161 [Ts Td]


This IS a tricky spot, because the stack sizes make it somewhat awkward because they are borderline shove/fold, but not quite there. That said, with all the dead money, a calls bad because there are people left to act, and your call + the dead money and villains UTG raise give good odds to anyone left to act.

Call me a donk, but this is one of those spots where I'd likely ship it pre and be done with it. This way you're cutting down odds on those left to act, and isolating the initial raiser hopefully. Depending on his opening range UTG, you may run into a monster, but he can still comfortably fold a lot of his raising range due to the fact he has to call for his tourney life. Even if he does call and you're a dog, you're still in great shape blind wise, and I think what he can call with is offset by the times he's going to fold the bottom part of is raising range.


     
  19-Nov-12, 09:14   #6
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Reraise allin preflop! Simple.
Then leave it up to the pokergods.

     
  19-Nov-12, 10:57   #7
  0 
Mysik86 

Joined: Nov '11
Location: Poland
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 773
I still think that he may have 57... He bet on the flop, because he has draw to straight from both sides [5 6 7 8], and on flop he got 4, so he went all-in. You should tell us, how he played earlier? If he was very aggressive? Or he play rather tight?

     
  19-Nov-12, 13:16   #8
  0 
Fakiry 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 4764
I would fold, that Ace would be anough to make me stop at this hand. Everyone checked on the turn, but most probbly is Andrey Cruz92 having an Ace in the hand and being slowplaying at that time, waiting for someone to increase the pot so he could give the final cut in the end. Like it didn't happened, he had to bet in the end and, altough it was a big bet, he probably would be winning it if you wanted to see his hand. You can also think he didin't had the ace and, like everyone checked at the turn, he had the chance to make a big bet at the river and take everything without a showdown. This is a freeroll, but it's in advanced stage, would it justify such a risk, or was he just another donk getting far on a tourney? I think it's not worth to pay to see.

     
  19-Nov-12, 15:35   #9
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Posted by doomdy:
Reraise allin preflop! Simple.
Then leave it up to the pokergods.



That's gambling game, not skill game Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile I surprise the idea came from you doomdy, I am sure it 's not your style Smile Smile

Weak hand or bluff from UTG 1 ? really ? I figure he hold medium pair or Ax suited, AQ/AK if not
he really tired and want to go Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile

     
  19-Nov-12, 16:05   #10
  0 
Nightmare161 
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 86
[/QUOTE]

This IS a tricky spot, because the stack sizes make it somewhat awkward because they are borderline shove/fold, but not quite there. That said, with all the dead money, a calls bad because there are people left to act, and your call + the dead money and villains UTG raise give good odds to anyone left to act.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with u that the pre flop call is not the best option and i could have made a small 3bet to see where I'm at and that would have also given any player left to act bad pot odds to call.

[/QUOTE]

Call me a donk, but this is one of those spots where I'd likely ship it pre and be done with it. This way you're cutting down odds on those left to act, and isolating the initial raiser hopefully. Depending on his opening range UTG, you may run into a monster, but he can still comfortably fold a lot of his raising range due to the fact he has to call for his tourney life. Even if he does call and you're a dog, you're still in great shape blind wise, and I think what he can call with is offset by the times he's going to fold the bottom part of is raising range.

[/QUOTE]

I don't like the all in option with this hand and as you have said i will more likely run in to a monster hand depending on his opening range UTG or i will be flipping which is not what i want(i try to keep flips to minimum).


------------
Posted by Mysik86:
I still think that he may have 57... He bet on the flop, because he has draw to straight from both sides [5 6 7 8], and on flop he got 4, so he went all-in. You should tell us, how he played earlier? If he was very aggressive? Or he play rather tight?


You put him on 57 just because he continuation bets the flop which is standard play.
The only information i have on him is a UTG raise with QJs a couple of hands ago. He has been playing standard poker and have not seen anything out of the ordinary.


------------
Posted by Serpang:
Posted by doomdy:
Reraise allin preflop! Simple.
Then leave it up to the pokergods.



That's gambling game, not skill game Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile I surprise the idea came from you doomdy, I am sure it 's not your style Smile Smile

Weak hand or bluff from UTG 1 ? really ? I figure he hold medium pair or Ax suited, AQ/AK if not
he really tired and want to go Big Smile Big Smile Big Smile


I can't say exactly why but i did not put him on a A when he shoved the river. He had invested 20% of his stack so far and was left roughly with less than15bb on the river. He knew that was his only chance of winning the pot since Sale had checked to him and i was left to act.(hope that makes seance)

Edited by Nightmare161 (Monday, November 19, 2012 @ 16:34 GMT)


     
  19-Nov-12, 21:21   #11
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490

I agree with u that the pre flop call is not the best option and i could have made a small 3bet to see where I'm at and that would have also given any player left to act bad pot odds to call.

Yeah, totally a viable option. A bet of around 15k would be effective as well.


I don't like the all in option with this hand and as you have said i will more likely run in to a monster hand depending on his opening range UTG or i will be flipping which is not what i want(i try to keep flips to minimum).

That's true as well.

Posted by Mysik86:
I still think that he may have 57... He bet on the flop, because he has draw to straight from both sides [5 6 7 8], and on flop he got 4, so he went all-in. You should tell us, how he played earlier? If he was very aggressive? Or he play rather tight?


Based on pre-flop action, I find it incredibly hard to believe that weak of a hand would be in any of their ranges, unless they are complete loose spewtards. You have to consider how the hand went down pre-flop - UTG raise, call, call. Now also consider the pot size, as well as everyone's chips left and how the rest of the hand played down.

The UTG raise to me says strength, because realistically you should be opening UTG pretty tight. The 1 call behind could be draw type hands due to good odds inviting a call. I think it's also safe to say they don't have a premium, like AA or KK, because again unless they are a total idiot, they SHOULD be 3-betting to isolate, as they don't want 2 people in a pot with them.

OTF is a pretty standard cont. bet, especially given the board texture. It's connected/open ended, but no flush draw. Again I'm going to say neither of the other players has 57, because that'd be retarded.

OTT everyone checks, which to me means either everyone was scared of the ace, or was trying to trap. Since the UTG raiser checked, I'm assuming he genuinely didn't like the ace or he would have bet since there was only OP to act afterwards. Sales COULD be trapping.

OTR Sales checks again, which to me either says trap or missed completely. If andrey was obviously aggressive at the table, I'd be more inclined to believe he's trapping.

At this point, andrey's shove makes total sense, because it's only roughly 2/3 the pot size.I think he's got something, but nothing huge.

So I'm going to say andrey likely had a big pair like JJ+.

Sales either folded a smaller pair, or showed up with trip 6's or 8's.

Either way, I don't think OP won the hand.

     
  20-Nov-12, 14:36   #12
  0 
Nightmare161 
Joined: May '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 86
Posted by Nightmare161:
Full Tilt Poker Game #31456569168: $1,000 Weekly Freeroll (243445118), Table 936 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 00:25:26 WET - 2012/11/19 [19:25:26 ET - 2012/11/18]
Seat 1: invite0765 (8,796)
Seat 2: Ace-from-Space1 (5,269)
Seat 3: Mike Erst (15,096)
Seat 4: Nightmare161 (178,478)
Seat 5: sale1005 (80,321)
Seat 6: GipsyLT (40,542)
Seat 7: Andrey Cruz92 (54,183)
Seat 8: 19oleg19 (79,866)
Seat 9: BOTEVRATZA (107,179)
invite0765 antes 300
Ace-from-Space1 antes 300
Mike Erst antes 300
Nightmare161 antes 300
sale1005 antes 300
GipsyLT antes 300
Andrey Cruz92 antes 300
19oleg19 antes 300
BOTEVRATZA antes 300
sale1005 posts the small blind of 1,200
GipsyLT posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Nightmare161 [Ts Td]
Andrey Cruz92 has 15 seconds left to act
Andrey Cruz92 raises to 5,800
19oleg19 folds
BOTEVRATZA folds
invite0765 has 15 seconds left to act
invite0765 folds
Ace-from-Space1 folds
Mike Erst folds
Nightmare161 calls 5,800
sale1005 calls 4,600
GipsyLT folds
*** FLOP *** [6c 8d 2s] (Total Pot: 22,500, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 bets 11,050
Nightmare161 calls 11,050
sale1005 calls 11,050
*** TURN *** [6c 8d 2s] Ace of diamonds (Total Pot: 55,650, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 checks
Nightmare161 checks
*** RIVER *** [6c 8d 2s Ad] 4 of clubs (Total Pot: 55,650, 3 Players)
sale1005 checks
Andrey Cruz92 bets 37,033 and is all in.
Nightmare327 calls 37,033
sale1005 bets 63,171 and is all in
Nightmare161 folds
uncalled bet of 26,168 returned to sale1005
sale1005 shows [Ad 8d]
Andrey Cruz92 shows [Qs 6s]
sale1005 shows two pair, Aces and Eights Shock Aww crap!
Andrey Cruz92 shows one pair, Sixes Smile
sale wins the pot (166,749) with two pair, Aces and Eights



There you have it guys sale was slow playing top 2 pair and made a passive check on the river hoping for exactly what happend while andrey had air and was trying to steal. I can't believe he raised with that hand. Shock. Would you still call knowing u had Andrey beat.?

     
  21-Nov-12, 20:15   #13
  0 
retribution 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1490
Posted by Nightmare161:
There you have it guys sale was slow playing top 2 pair and made a passive check on the river hoping for exactly what happend while andrey had air and was trying to steal. I can't believe he raised with that hand. Shock. Would you still call knowing u had Andrey beat.?


I'm not surprised Andrey showed up with total air, but I'm surprised he raised UTG with total trash. I think sales played it fine, he had good odds to call pre with A8 suited. and had TPTK otf and improved on the turn.

I like your fold a lot, and it shows a lot of discipline. Kudos to you for picking your spots well.

     
  21-Nov-12, 20:25   #14
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
Posted by doomdy:
Reraise allin preflop! Simple.
Then leave it up to the pokergods.


I don't mind the smooth call pre flop, but I would probably shove too there. And on the flop, I would definetly shove 100% of the time considering this is a freeroll and the only hands that beat you at this point are JJ QQ KK AA 22 66 88. (of course some 2 pairs (26 68 28) are possible too but seems highly unlikely)

But if you choose the passive line in this hand, when the A comes on the turn I would fold because it's 3 way and it seems pretty unlikely that no one is holding an ace on a full 9 players table.

Edited by TheMachineQC (Wednesday, November 21, 2012 @ 20:29 GMT)


     
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