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  4-Feb-13, 20:56   #1
what am I doing wrong? 0 
Weenie 
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Slovakia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 679
I decided to ask you for advice about my play. I think it will be hard to answer, If you dont know all details about my play but at least, you can try to help Smile

So my problem is in multitable tournaments. I dont have problem in "first phase" of tournament, like first hour. I use to play decent tight aggresive style (trying to play Big Smile). And I can easily (in most of tournaments) build my stack on average or slightly more than average level.. But the problem starts after 1 and half - 2 hours of play when the bubble is closer, or if we are already ITM but soon after that. I just cant continue to raise my stack. (I always have feeling like I am card dead, but am I really? Smile ) And my stack slowly become a shortstack and I am forced to all in preflop situations many times..

So my question is, what the hell am I doing wrong, almost everytime in these tournaments? Is the problem that I dont change my game in later phase? Should I play more loose?

Edited by Weenie (Monday, February 04, 2013 @ 20:57 GMT)


     
  4-Feb-13, 21:02   #2
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8643
yeah this happens to me lots of times too- the way i see this is this: at first i play decent enough game, low stakes allow me to take a shot here and there...so i build up stack with as little risk as possible, but when blinds increase i just think to myself- damn calling there would be too expensive...so i fold, i'm happy seeing other people dropping out...but at some stage i begin to run out of chips & i'm forced into action- i think i just don't want to take a gamble, dunno if this is because i'm afraid to lose or because i'm a shitty player or maybe even both Confused

     
  4-Feb-13, 21:17   #3
  0 
p0ck3tr0ck3t 
Joined: Jan '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 704
lol my problem is the opposite. i play bad early in fear of getting donked out. in my case i seem to lose vs very poor players who shove with J rag and win vs my pocket pair. so i play patiently untill i think the donks are out then change into and aggresive style. seems to have paid off recently.
im not saying its a good solution but maybe worth a shot if your way isnt working.
i seem to really well with this in rush tournys. i cash on average 6 of 10 tournys,

p.s was in a tourny lowest stack changed to aggresive doubled up a few times and made the final table with 4th place and around 80,000 in chips.... (my lowest stack was 7k.) so things can change quickly maybe 10 hands i got up that high read some players well got some luck and personally i think i played really well..

find a style that works for you and work at it. im a very low skilled online poker player so take my advice or ignore it just thought id chip in lol

also remember you have to be ballsy from time to time

Edited by p0ck3tr0ck3t (Monday, February 04, 2013 @ 21:27 GMT)


     
  4-Feb-13, 21:43   #4
  0 
gmgm 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 102
Posted by Weenie:
I decided to ask you for advice about my play. I think it will be hard to answer, If you dont know all details about my play but at least, you can try to help Smile

So my problem is in multitable tournaments. I dont have problem in "first phase" of tournament, like first hour. I use to play decent tight aggresive style (trying to play Big Smile). And I can easily (in most of tournaments) build my stack on average or slightly more than average level.. But the problem starts after 1 and half - 2 hours of play when the bubble is closer, or if we are already ITM but soon after that. I just cant continue to raise my stack. (I always have feeling like I am card dead, but am I really? Smile ) And my stack slowly become a shortstack and I am forced to all in preflop situations many times..

So my question is, what the hell am I doing wrong, almost everytime in these tournaments? Is the problem that I dont change my game in later phase? Should I play more loose?

try potraising when the blinds are high u know where ur at after a potraise

     
  4-Feb-13, 22:23   #5
  0 
occultum 
Joined: Aug '11
Location: Portugal
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 232
I guess what you are saying is.. you play your game until your ITM or near bubble and then you shut out?
If so i think the problem is the mental approach, your playing to win a few bucks and when you get there or near you play on fear and probably sit waiting for QQ+ so you can play a safe hand.. after a while blinds will eat you up. This last part is well described in Doyle's book.

This question depends alot about what kind of bankroll your playing with, what kind of buy ins and what are your short term poker goals.

If you could answer this questions it would help.

     
  4-Feb-13, 22:35   #6
  0 
awood88 
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 1881
It is very difficult to answer and there could be several reasons why you start to lose. Not all mtts are the same and whether you are playing too tight or too loose depends on so many factors it's impossible to say. But if you find yourself getting short-stacked towards the bubble you probably are playing too tight. Yet if you start seeing more flops with lower starting hands you'll probably lose chips faster so maybe you need to concentrate on good position, stealing preflop and playing extra TAG.
As the mtt goes on the average stack usually decreases in blinds, so the pressure to raise increases. Once all the players are short however you find that you want to combat their looseness by being extra tight with your starting hands. Ideally you don't want to end up in the position where you are forced to be loose against lots of loose players. So you want to do all you can to not be short when you reach the bubble, which means adjusting your style as it suits you depending on how average you are. In some turbo mtts this means that you must be at least twice the average around the bubble as the average stack tends to shoot up quickly after the bubble bursts.
It's really hard to say more without seeing scenarios or knowing more about the mtts you are playing but I guess you could make a note of how many blinds you have at each level, note when play starts to get difficult, note when you are limited to just shove or call and then next time you play the same mtt you can see the path you are on and when you need to earn more blinds quickly to not fall into the same trap every time.

     
  4-Feb-13, 22:53   #7
  0 
Greenmohave 

Joined: Jan '11
Location: United States
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 3361
To be honest your probably not doing anything wrong. That's the way a lot of tournaments go. You'll do well then fade, but in order to fade out completely play your strong hands with a bit of aggression. If you have a good hand and someone is betting against and see's your weak they'll keep beating on you. I'm not saying be so agressive that you lose, but you have to get some good hands.

I mean, do you ever play suited connectors like 9,10 or 8,9. If you can see the flop cheap these are good hands to hit straights or flushes. Not always and not every, but try something if your taking a beating constantly.

     
  5-Feb-13, 00:08   #8
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4862
This is a common problem. You have to get ove the mental block that betting or raising costs more later on in the game. Of course it does, but the benefits are larger too. You have to alter yor playing style at some stage during a tourney, you are just waiting too long before you getpot committed or simply fade away like a damp squib. You have to accept defeat a times to be able to win at others...dont fade away everytime....start taking those big cost gambles and it will pay off ove time.

     
  5-Feb-13, 00:52   #9
  0 
nipitiri3 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: Estonia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 614
ya i kinda have same problem if i play lil too high entry fee tourneys for my bankroll if i play 1-5 usd ones i dont have any tho Big Smile need not think at cash at all and try to play ya best game thats all
i play pretty loose in end and tight at start cant be afraid to lose or ya never win bigger ammounts by in end i meant when already itm (not close to ft lol)

Edited by nipitiri3 (Tuesday, February 05, 2013 @ 01:04 GMT)


     
  5-Feb-13, 01:22   #10
  0 
KowKain 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Slovenia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 109
Observe table dynamics and don't be affraid to make loose pushes for blind steals

     
  5-Feb-13, 10:28   #11
  0 
SorinelPoker 
Joined: Jan '11
Location: Romania
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 48
first u have to make sure u play under bankroll management and not thinking that if u get kicked out before u get ITM you will loose you money.
In game from my experience i noticed that if u play very tight u can do well and get ITM but low in chips.
Recently i changed the tactic and paid some all ins with Ax off (depends on your opponents play) and was succesfull against that players who shoved with al kind of cards.
So first read you opponents then after u build your stack to average or more become agresive with good hands, and don't be afraid of loosing (if u think you will loose then u will loose. BE POSITIVE if you want to win tournaments)

     
  5-Feb-13, 11:29   #12
  +1 
erru9107 
Joined: Oct '11
Location: Sweden
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 910
Well, I used to have that problem until I decided to switch styles when I reach a certain level. The MTT's I play is mostly freerolls (due to me being more of a CG player) so I'm not sure if this works on BI MTT's (although it has worked for me at some of those as well).

I usually just play very tight the first few levels and only play premium hands. I always try to have at least 20 BB but of course that isn't a must, it's just how I like it. I wait until the blinds are starting to be worth stealing, I would say around 100/200 or in some cases 200/400 depending on the tournament, number of players, how many chips are in the game, where you start to get paid off and so on. Anyways, when that happens, I change gears and start to play a bit more aggressive but I still pick my cards well, although I widen my range a little bit. Basically I just start playing a little bit more loose.

When I'm ITM I take a look at my stack to see if I need to double up quickly or if I can fold some risky hands. If I find that I need to double up quickly I'll just wait until I'm in late position and no one has raised before me and I have decent cards, then just shove all-in and hope for the best. If you're low stack and ITM I think that blind stealing is what keeps you alive so don't be afraid to push all-in on just about average cards when you have the chance (middle/ late position and no raise before you) since most of the times, the other players probably won't risk calling on a coin flip.

Another tip I could give you is that even thou you might have a decent hand like AJ, AT, don't go calling an all-in preflop. You want to control the pot at this time so rather go all-in on K7 when you're on the button and steal the blinds then risk loosing you're entire stack on a flip against what probably already is a good or even better hand then yours.

Also, on the bubble, don't be afraid to push an all-in preflop. A lot of players won't risk their stacks this close to the money so they will a lot of times fold next to or even premium hands just to make it ITM.

     
  5-Feb-13, 12:09   #13
  0 
Peremoha 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Ukraine
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 115
Good day everyone!
Thank you very much Smile Very nice thread and posts.I usually have the same problem.At first few levels I have not bad stack but later blinds are killing me.
I read all the posts and got really useful information.
Thank you again and good luck Thumbs Up

     
  8-Feb-13, 16:58   #14
  0 
Weenie 
Joined: Aug '12
Location: Slovakia
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 679
sorry for longer time, while I didnt response here. I hadnt time for that...

Thanks to everyone who tried to help me with their suggestions. And I am happy that I am not alone in that Smile

I dont think its "mental block" like somebody wrote, that I am affraid to risk my chips before bubble. When I have hand I play it. Regarding my range. When I have more than 50BB I play any pair, suited connectors, AK,AQ, AJs, KQos. Then some few other hands depends on position and action before me. when I have around 20bb my range is little bit more tight. Sometimes I dont play 22,33,44 or KQhands (again depends on position and action..) when I have less than 10BB my range become wider again with preflop all in situations.. (I am giving you so much info lol)

Truth is that I dont steal blinds too much. But not only close to bubble but whole game Smile And its maybe because most of tournaments I play, are freerols where stealing blinds is more questionable I guess.. I wil work on it next weeks, study some videos maybe.. Smile

     
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