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  5-Sep-13, 19:17   #1
Did I Play This Right? 0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
Would like discussion whether I played this right(From the flop) or as usual I just get buggered over on the river. I went all in because of the flush and straight draws as the guy who called has been calling with crap and chasing draws since I joined that table.

** Hand # 5027521271 starting - 2013-09-05 20:08:49
** Turbo: Shuffle 21 - €4 Max [Hold'em] (0.02|0.04 NL - Cash Game) Real Money

Lobberi sitting in seat 1 with €2.90
samsung7677 sitting in seat 2 with €4.55
spid3rix sitting in seat 3 with €4.42
moneypenny sitting in seat 4 with €3.38
Phisix sitting in seat 5 with €6.10
metalx sitting in seat 6 with €2.82[Dealer]
Lobberi posted the small blind - €0.02
samsung7677 posted the big blind - €0.04

** Dealing cards to Phisix: Jd, Ks
spid3rix raised to €0.12
moneypenny called - €0.12
Phisix called - €0.12
metalx called - €0.12
Lobberi folded
samsung7677 folded

** Dealing the flop: Jh, 8h, Kc
spid3rix bet - €0.40
moneypenny folded
Phisix went all-in - €5.98
metalx folded
spid3rix went all-in - €3.90

spid3rix shows: Ah, Ad
Phisix shows: Jd, Ks

** Dealing the turn: Qd

** Dealing the river: 8c
spid3rix wins €9.04 from the main pot

I like how I never luck out like that even when I am slow playing a hand. Luckily I was bossing another table so I am still up in profits but it just frustrates me when I spend half and hour playing great poker then then crap like this happens with a big pot.

I was actually thinking an ace would come out as it always happens to me. Not far off as the river is my nemesis for all ins.

     
  5-Sep-13, 19:47   #2
  0 
photolong 

Joined: Feb '08
Location: Ireland
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 638
unfortunately you went all in with a flop with two types of obvious draws ... pretty much guaranting a call from the type of hands u dont want calls from ... as anyone with a strong flush draw would probably call and more than likely anyone with a up and down draw would probably call ... also be hard to put down A,A as well as he might of just put you on a draw with that flop.

probably a better option would have being a re to a $1 after he bet out and then shove turn if he flat calls ... but i think he would have just re all in to you if that had happened so would have still being in the same boat

i personally would have called if i had the flush draw ... and the A,A and if u had re my flop bet i would have re back with A,A ... might have only folded if i had the up and down draw

     
  5-Sep-13, 20:07   #3
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
What was your thinking about going all in on flop?

I mean, suggest he has a straight draw he has 32% chance of winning
If flush draw, 36%
If both, 68%? (figures off top of my head).
If he has trips, he is 83%
Even the exact hand he is still 30% to win

48c in pot preflop, he raises 40c so 88c. You then go all in for $5.98

most of the time, you are only getting called when you are way behind, you are winning a small pot or losing a big one.

I think essentially, whilst on this occasion you did have the best hand, you actually had no idea whether you did. You thought 'I have top two pair, all in' You made no bets to see where you were in the hand or have any idea what your opponent had'.

In effect, you were gambling imo


     
  5-Sep-13, 20:17   #4
  0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
What was I thinking going all in? Trying to stop them from hitting their draw which has been going on since I joined that table. I had been watching those players play with rubbish cards so I thought I had the better hand at the time.

What should I have done, just keep calling him down hoping a connector card or a card to nullify my two pair would come out? Because if another heart or straight draw card came out I would have checked and he would have bet trying to make out he hit one of them and I was not willing to take the risk of going that route.

Thanks for the replys anyway guys I will try a re-raise approach next time if I get into this situation again, but I only did it as people are always hitting their draws against me all the time but I never do so I wanted to try and protect myself, but it back fired as standard lol.

Edited by Phisix (Thursday, September 05, 2013 @ 20:21 GMT)


     
  5-Sep-13, 23:49   #5
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
The problem with these huge overbets, is that you will win a small pot almost always, except when you are up against a monster hand (e.g. top set). Usually you can't win enough of these small pots to compensate, for losing your whole stack once in a while.
That's what makes it a -EV play, I think.

People hitting their draws against you is frustrating, I know. However, the only way to profit, is to make them pay for the privilege of seeing another card. This means that you must raise enough, to give them bad pot odds to call, but not too much, so that you scare away hands that you beat, but get called by hands that dominate you...
Also when the draw hits, don't just pay them off all the time (when your opponent notices that you do, they will tend to play draws more often, because you offer great implied odds).

------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:
most of the time, you are only getting called when you are way behind, you are winning a small pot or losing a big one.

Exactly this...

------------
Posted by photolong:
... as anyone with a strong flush draw would probably call and more than likely anyone with a up and down draw would probably call ...

With such a big overbet you would want calls from drawing hands, since that is +EV for you (they don't have the proper odds to call).

Edited by marqis (Friday, September 06, 2013 @ 00:09 GMT)


     
  6-Sep-13, 06:20   #6
  0 
SuperpokefA 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 178
I know that it sucks when players chase straights & flushes & hit their draws. But as mentioned above you have to raise enough & giving them bad pot odds to call.
If you don't like those chasers look for another table.
If you get frustrated too much you mightgo on TILT and lose more money

     
  6-Sep-13, 08:52   #7
  0 
djpremier 
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 419
Well ... You got all the chips in the middle with the best hand ..
If you are sure that he would call with straight and flushdraws then I believe this was good play ... But in my opinion AA is pretty much the only hand that calls here and that you are ahead of ... I mean I'd expect calls only from 88,JJ,KK .. but then again it's NL4...
anyway if your read was that he'll call with anything that even slightly hits that flop then it was a good shove..

     
  6-Sep-13, 12:15   #8
  0 
stimp1024 
Joined: Feb '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 46
I think the all in move is wrong but not for the reasons others have stated. I think you gave him a chance to get away from the hand with the all in move.

All the money is going in here its just the way you get there as photolong said.

Basically if you are playing KJ which kind of flop are you hoping for?

K8J doesn't get much better does it? yeah a straight is nice but this flop is very good.

Basically you re-raise he shoves and then you call unless you have a very good reason to think he has a set and that is only likey to be 88 as you have a K and J in your hand, though of course it is still possible.

There is a ton of stuff here he can call / shove with that you are beating.

You got it in ahead and thats all you can do.



     
  6-Sep-13, 15:22   #9
  0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
Some great replys in this thread thank you it all gets taken in by me.

I only played KJ due to most of the players always playing with rubbish cards so thought KJ would be enough against them. It also goes to show that slow playing you big pockets with small raise/calls like he did is always against you.

     
  9-Sep-13, 07:27   #10
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1346
well personnally I do not play KJo unless I am small or big blind and can see the flop cheap (preferable with no raise)

postflop ... ok you hit 2 pair but there are possible str and fl draws

better do a reraise and no allin... you re hand is not good enough.

after the turn see your opponent action if he called your postflop reraise...

     
  9-Sep-13, 08:55   #11
  0 
roeish3 
Joined: Jul '13
Location: Israel
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 394
I know you didn't play right because this is exactly how I would've played it and I always lose on cash tables Smile
I hate cash games. I play nice and slowly and after two hours I lose all my stack to someone with pocket aces.
I believe that unless you are a pro, you must decide what game you play - MTT, sit & go or cash. You need different sets of skills for either one and you better learn how to master one of them perfectly and not try to dance between all three.

     
  9-Sep-13, 09:11   #12
  0 
thefly131 
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1346
Posted by roeish3:
I know you didn't play right because this is exactly how I would've played it and I always lose on cash tables Smile
I hate cash games. I play nice and slowly and after two hours I lose all my stack to someone with pocket aces.
I believe that unless you are a pro, you must decide what game you play - MTT, sit & go or cash. You need different sets of skills for either one and you better learn how to master one of them perfectly and not try to dance between all three.


I agree here that you have to play different at cash tables than playing SNG or MTT.

You just have to adjust your game a bit....

in MTT your risking your stack at the game and the maximum you can loose is the buyin.

in cash games all your money at the table is at risk...

If I m playing cash tables I leave the table when I have 40 to 50 % of profit and search a new table... so I get my profit and do not risk big allins.

In cash tables, especially micro avoid bluffs

     
  9-Sep-13, 13:55   #13
  0 
Phisix 

Joined: May '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 2216
I am mainly a cash table player and occasionally I try my hands as MTT's when there is a cheap buy in and a big prize. I have had more success with cash tables and a few nice standard wins with MTT's.

I hate cash games. I play nice and slowly and after two hours I lose all my stack to someone with pocket aces.


Tell me about it. I got trapped by AA twice last night and by calling stations(So you think they are bluffing or calling/raising with crap as usual) Big Smile

     
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