Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
Is it a legitimate strategy to just raise EVERY hand pre-flop...? I've sat at many tables where somebody just raises every hand to 3 or 4 times the blind. It's just like a standard rule of thumb thing that they do regardless of what they have in their pocket,...OR what could come on the flop...
They always seem to build up a healthy stack too...BUT,....a lot of the time when challenged with a re-raise,...they back down... but it sure seems to make a lot of people fold hands that they might have otherwise played.
Joined: May '08
Location: Sweden
Age: 55 (M)
Posts: 1362
Iv'e seen this from time to time but I haven't yet figured out what the deal is.
In som e cases, I suspect it is a fairly new player that has been told that the key to winning poker is to be aggressive, so he/she is. All of the time.
But I don't know, it might be some clever strategy I haven't grasped yet.
What I do have found, is that these players seem to be pretty easy to get a buck or two from, since, when you chose to play, you almost always have a better hand than him. (Altough, he from time to time has AA, or some junk and gets 2P on the flop.)
Joined: Mar '11
Location: Croatia
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 1738
Agree with Pjot. These are the type of players i like to get on a table, specially that kind that has "aggression" pre-flop but then doesn't really know what to do after when someone calls/re-raises them. Simply you cannot be a good or experienced poker player if you raise EVERY hand. That's something only a fish or a noob would do. Also it's very easy to put them in a hand after... so even if they do get lucky on the flop, rarely i found one that could hide it... just paying attention to bet sizes and the speed on which they react should be enough to get you out of trouble.
Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 39 (M)
Posts: 10090
well i see a few things here: - u say they always seem to build a huge stack...wroooong: there are a few of these big stack bullies- but it's always a different dude, usually they just go bust quickly...a few of them survive and build decent stacks taking chips from similar "poker pro's ". - this can actually be an interesting tactic once the blinds are small compared to your chip stack: constant raises drive your opponents mad, and they often go over the board just "to stop you"...since there is no chance to read your hand, u have a good chance of getting a pay-off from your premium holdings.
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1277
Posted by pochui: well i see a few things here: - u say they always seem to build a huge stack...wroooong: there are a few of these big stack bullies- but it's always a different dude, usually they just go bust quickly...a few of them survive and build decent stacks taking chips from similar "poker pro's ". - this can actually be an interesting tactic once the blinds are small compared to your chip stack: constant raises drive your opponents mad, and they often go over the board just "to stop you"...since there is no chance to read your hand, u have a good chance of getting a pay-off from your premium holdings.
Dropping knowledge.
I saw this on a 9-man SNG recently. Guy raise 4x blind every hand, occasionally he'd fold. But largely he was making huge raises and he busted two people, then continued his aggression, and some of his showdowns were with premium holdings, which then makes some people think every hand is some monster.
And eventually, I halved his stack with AA when he went AI with K6o or some s**t, then the next couple hands he got dumped out. Short term results. I actually think if you managed to get lucky in that nobody had a premium hand to call you with, this might be worth a testing in an MTT just to see, and then tighten up once 3x the starting stack.
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Seen that a few times. The thing is that the majority of these players dont know when to stop, or that they should stop playing like that eventually. How long are you gonna be lucky enough, so that the other players have crap cards and fold. I have followed a few players using that system and the majority of them fails.
Joined: Jan '11
Location: Germany
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 513
This is definitely a very unprofitable strategy in the long run....whether cash game tournament or sit n go. I only know this kind of play from very bad/new playeres or some one who is horribly tilting !
Joined: Sep '13
Location: Romania
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 31
1. this strategy works .... if you don't abuse it 2. you raise . raise . raise... if you are raise you 3xraise... even if it's a bluff... you put some negative thinking in the opponent he losses focus and starts calculating .... and then he lost the hand 3. not to back fire you use it after a strong hand or with relative good cards same color ... good for straight and before all that you must always check what's on the table ... this is why sometime it back fires ... they keep betting and when you counter bet they fold ... they forget to check the table cards.
They are most often the donks that go all-in the first hand and get lucky with 1 or 2 callers.
From then on it's either all-in every hand or the 4/5x raise depending on their level of donkishness.
As noonlion says if you can afford to wait for AA or KK you can usually start their downfall and because others then see the rubbish they are raising with it's the start of the slippery slope for them.
What I don't comprehend about them is that even after that first cooler they still do it with crap cards. Total lack of brain cells (for them, not me ) is the only thing that I can think of.
Joined: Sep '13
Location: Romania
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 31
Posted by HenryMinute: I see this a lot in freerolls.
They are most often the donks that go all-in the first hand and get lucky with 1 or 2 callers.
From then on it's either all-in every hand or the 4/5x raise depending on their level of donkishness.
As noonlion says if you can afford to wait for AA or KK you can usually start their downfall and because others then see the rubbish they are raising with it's the start of the slippery slope for them.
What I don't comprehend about them is that even after that first cooler they still do it with crap cards. Total lack of brain cells (for them, not me ) is the only thing that I can think of.
most of the callers they bail out after the 3rd bet ... last one that stands must have the card ... really good one... but do the fact i had 2-3 callers that means some high cards or medium hands on that hand are gone ... the chances for you with AA KK to get something that you need are slim...
PS: i F***ing hate, those f***ing donks that go with the all in all the time .... but on the other side the slide betting it's a good technique if you know when to use it .
Joined: Jun '10
Location: Belgium
Age: 57 (M)
Posts: 178
I wouldn't advice you to play with this kind of strategy. Sure you will win a lot of hands, but in the long run i don't think it's +EV.
At cash games players who use a HUD will now that you raise too much hands and will adapt at your game. They now that you play very loose and have a wide range. They will play back with strong hands and have better chances of winning the hand. You will win some hands but in the long run you will donate the money to them
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
I'm thinking that a lot of these people who do this are just imitating what they see the pros doing on TV. They don't normally limp into pots. They seem to either fold or raise.
I guess if you raise a lot preflop, you'll narrow the field down and give you a better chance at winning a pot,....but if you do this EVERY hand, statistics dictate that you mostly DON'T have a hand...and in the longrun as previously mentioned,....it's a losing strategy!
It just comes down to plain bullying folks off the pot I figure
There's a big difference between being agressive and being an aggro donk.
And actually raising every hand that you wanna see a flop with pre flop in a MTT is pretty standard. Why play a hand where you don't have control of the pot or any information? Don't get me wrong: limping is an important part of the game especially on the small blind. But in a MTT or SnG you have to constantly try to improve your stack, and you don't win chips without risking to lose chips. Best way to win chips is to win pots without showdowns.
Edited by TheMachineQC (24 September 2013 @ 20:21 GMT)
Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 6036
I Googled the words Aggro Donk and came up with a bunch of sites commenting on this. Some interesting reads...
Seems that they can be some of the most difficult and frustrating types to play against. Maybe THAT is their strategy! It's not the cards they have,...but rather to just try and mess with your head.
I gather the best way to deal with them is to just stand up to them! You know they're playing crap like 7 3 offsuit,...so just wait until you have a fairly decent pocket and don't back down all the way to the river....no matter HOW much they raise....
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
The thing is that you are controlling your game with them, waiting for a good hand to come and face them in an all in, and some times it happens to get you at the end. Thats the nerve racking there lol
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 5712
Yey..... its a tactic that can be optimised and also one that can suck you in and spit you out the other end...pretty quickly too. its success really depends on the other players at the table...if they are all protecting their (usually free) stacks, then go large and steal everything.....on the guard that if a tighty calls you, throw it away cos little Mr mouse has just got a huge hand that will destroy you!
Dont get upset by players who play this style and try to oit call them, ...just be patient and take them for everything when you get your own monster hand.
Posted by damosk: Yey..... its a tactic that can be optimised and also one that can suck you in and spit you out the other end...pretty quickly too. its success really depends on the other players at the table...if they are all protecting their (usually free) stacks, then go large and steal everything.....on the guard that if a tighty calls you, throw it away cos little Mr mouse has just got a huge hand that will destroy you!
Dont get upset by players who play this style and try to oit call them, ...just be patient and take them for everything when you get your own monster hand.
I've got very small hands and what's more I've had one of my fingers amputated.
Do you think I stand any chance against this type of player?
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 47 (F)
Posts: 14136
Not to worry there Henry. You can pick one of the two following hands and guaranteed you will be a winner each and every time you go all in against them. Unless they come up with something better
) is the only thing that I can think of.
