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  23-Feb-14, 21:45   #1
Did not expect people to overvalue AK off at 1/2 preflop 0 
Battle87 
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 157
Wanted to share this with you guys


PokerStars Zoom Hand #112300640336: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2014/02/23 22:41:10 CET [2014/02/23 16:41:10 ET]
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Tino_Sp ($96.14 in chips)
Seat 2: battle87 ($309.87 in chips)
Seat 3: haypab ($314.41 in chips)
Seat 4: glober2422 ($200 in chips)
Seat 5: hT85 ($208 in chips)
Seat 6: ghost1582 ($435.68 in chips)
battle87: posts small blind $1
haypab: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to battle87 [As Ac]
glober2422: folds
hT85: folds
ghost1582: folds
Tino_Sp: raises $2.06 to $4.06
battle87: raises $7.94 to $12
haypab: raises $28.06 to $40.06
Tino_Sp: folds
battle87: raises $79.94 to $120
haypab: raises $194.41 to $314.41 and is all-in
battle87: calls $189.87 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($4.54) returned to haypab
*** FLOP *** [2c Th 7c]
*** TURN *** [2c Th 7c] 4 of clubs
*** RIVER *** [2c Th 7c 4c] 2 of hearts
*** SHOW DOWN ***
battle87: shows [As Ac] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
haypab: shows [Ks Ah] (a pair of Deuces)
battle87 collected $621 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $623.80 | Rake $2.80
Board [2c Th 7c 4c 2h]
Seat 1: Tino_Sp (button) folded before Flop
Seat 2: battle87 (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won ($621) with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 3: haypab (big blind) showed [Ks Ah] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 4: glober2422 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: hT85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ghost1582 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

     
  23-Feb-14, 21:47   #2
  0 
pokershark74 

Joined: Feb '11
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 831
Nicely done man fortunate the tardo did overvalue it eh! his lose your gain hehe. glad i was online to catch this post nice to see aces take down a nice size pot. Thumbs Up

     
  23-Feb-14, 21:53   #3
  0 
Battle87 
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Belgium
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 157
Litterally the next hand I play this happens xD

still up good so won't be to mad about it Tongue

PokerStars Zoom Hand #112300930792: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2014/02/23 22:45:47 CET [2014/02/23 16:45:47 ET]
Table 'Aenna' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Darkrem ($711.77 in chips)
Seat 2: Morgauth ($237.18 in chips)
Seat 3: battle87 ($618 in chips)
Seat 4: kegelheini ($133.50 in chips)
Seat 5: benjohnson23 ($121.93 in chips)
Seat 6: Poker Rexxx ($200 in chips)
Morgauth: posts small blind $1
battle87: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to battle87 [Ad As]
kegelheini: raises $4 to $6
benjohnson23: calls $6
Poker Rexxx: folds
Darkrem: folds
Morgauth: folds
battle87: raises $14 to $20
kegelheini: folds
benjohnson23: calls $14
*** FLOP *** [9d 3h 7c]
battle87: bets $36
benjohnson23: calls $36
*** TURN *** [9d 3h 7c] Queen of diamonds
battle87: bets $66
benjohnson23: calls $65.93 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.07) returned to battle87
*** RIVER *** [9d 3h 7c Qd] Jack of diamonds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
battle87: shows [Ad As] (a pair of Aces)
benjohnson23: shows [7h 9h] (two pair, Nines and Sevens)
benjohnson23 collected $248.06 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $250.86 | Rake $2.80
Board [9d 3h 7c Qd Jd]
Seat 1: Darkrem (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Morgauth (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: battle87 (big blind) showed [Ad As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 4: kegelheini folded before Flop
Seat 5: benjohnson23 showed [7h 9h] and won ($248.06) with two pair, Nines and Sevens
Seat 6: Poker Rexxx folded before Flop (didn't bet)

     
  24-Feb-14, 13:23   #4
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5533
The amount of times that Ace King has got me into trouble is nobodys business.At the end of the day if you dont hit the flop you have only got Ace high. Dont get me wrong, i would like this hand every time but you must not get carried away with it

     
  24-Feb-14, 13:33   #5
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
The stronger you play AK, the stronger it becomes.... so in theory it was an ok play on their part. But in reality.... at the point of the millionth reraise, they probably should've figured you for AA..... I *always* re-raise AK, but *never* re-re-raise with it.

*other than in exceptional circumstances*


The 7 9 play was worse... but not specifically the calls pre-flop (although they were bad), but not getting all their chips in on that flop was an appalling play....

     
  24-Feb-14, 13:48   #6
  +1 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Maybe he overvalue'd your skill.
If you have the right 3betting and 5betting range in this spot then his 4bet and 6bet jam is pretty reasonable. If you are too tight however, then,yeah,it is bad.

Not to be offencive,it's just the truth.

You should be 3betting a VERY wide range to the BTN opening, thus the BB can have a high 4bet frequency to get you to fold preflop.
He can also not assume that you will flat his 4bet because you will play OOP postflop. Thus, your only possible action should be to 5bet or to fold to his 4bet. vs. some hands that you 4bet (99/TT for example) you might be able to fold to his jam, even after 5betting, and he's taking the deadmoney instead of going into a flip.

So yeah, his play is very reasonable, as long as villain (in this case you) has a range proper enough, depending on the certain spot. I highly doubt this is an unprofitable play vs. most players.

Edited by BeMyATMplz (Monday, February 24, 2014 @ 13:52 GMT)


     
  24-Feb-14, 17:01   #7
  0 
mirexxx 
Joined: Sep '11
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2725

5 bet shoves pre often offer you 2:1 pot odds (or sometimes even better). AKo is 38.8% dog against QQ+, AK range. If villain's stacking off range is QQ+, AK
(which is a good starting assumption for an unknown player sitting on 100bb) or wider, folding AKo is a clear mistake.

     
  24-Feb-14, 18:46   #8
  -1 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5680
I saw an interview with Daniel Negraneau where they were talking about AK....

He said: "What's AK...? That's not a hand...!" He said it's easy to fold...among other things...

I always remember that when I have AK and really assess what's going on and with who in a hand and always consider folding AK depending on the situation.

That has saved my A$$ SO many more times than any good it would have done in the long run...

Of course,...it always boils down to how much you want to take a gamble depending on the circumstances.

Nice pot by the way... $621...? NOT too shabby! WAY more that I have ever won in a single hand... Thumbs Up

     
  24-Feb-14, 19:10   #9
  0 
Theapple 

Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 1552
yea he should have put you on qq+ after that reraise but dont think you should complain about it really. Well, unless you are like me and lose 2x AA vs AK in a row Big Smile

but yea as someone already said, if you miss the flop with AK, and its gonna happen a lot, all u got is an ace high. So i love to see the flop and see where you at. 2/3 of the time your AK wont flop top pair, and imo its a bit overplayed. Ive seen so many people missing the flop and still shoving their ak postflop at micros, but i tend not to go broke with it Tongue

the other hand is just... mental really, even for micros, had no idea that could happen at your stakes too though Big Smile

     
  24-Feb-14, 19:14   #10
  0 
Macubaas 
Joined: Apr '11
Location: Romania
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 6668
Many probably would say that he played good but on that level on cash games on zoom going all in preflop with AK is a mistake.

On that level i would not even go all in preflop with KK since most of the times the villain has AA and most of the times you get busted...

     
  24-Feb-14, 20:30   #11
  0 
Theapple 

Joined: Sep '13
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 29 (M)
Posts: 1552
I still dont think id call a preflop shove that deep with AK. Yes, i know many people would, but im not one of those (yet?) Tongue

Not without any reads on that villian thats it. What most people here dont seem to take into consideration, AK is 2/3 fav vs... 27o. So if your preflop shove gets called with 27o (not saying its gonna happen, just using extremes here Tongue) you can expect to lose 1/3 of the time :=)

what makes AK so good is that it blocks ALL (but pocket A/K) Ax/Kx hands and also why i like it more than lets say QQ. Even if QQ has better equity, as long as you flop A/K you can actually get value out of it (unlike QQ on A/K high board) so yes it does have its uses and its one of best starting hands there are (obviously) but at the same i think its the most overplayed hand too.

JJ/QQ are hands that rarely want to see much postflop action (unless its coming from you obviously), while AK can miss the flop and still warrant a call on both turn and river, as long as you got right odds for making a call :=P

btw im still relatively new to all this (playing online poker for maybe half a year now) but in that time i havent seen a single hand that
a) kicked more people out of tourneys
b) was played so badly postflop

its a great hand, but its not invincible. even 27o will crack your AK 30% of the time, while QJs will do that 38% so ... yea Tongue Still, its a GREAT preflop card, at its best only after you see all 5 cards, so its a no brainer how most of the time its a clear shove in tourney play, but for gods sake people should stop calling pot sized bets with AK when they flop QQx, they really should :=D

ah and one more thing
when i was just starting my first thought after getting AK (even off) was omg i won i won, imo its the most deceptive hole cards you, as a begginer could get. Maybe thats why there are so many misplayed AK? :o

edit:
dear lord, this post ended up like 8x times bigger than intended.. i made a small 'ak brainstorming' topic of my own. oh well, in case someone reads it... theres one thing you should really know about me. i like turtles. wonder how many people will get to the turtle part.

Heart

     
  24-Feb-14, 22:09   #12
  0 
djpremier 
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 419
Posted by Macubaas:
On that level i would not even go all in preflop with KK since most of the times the villain has AA and most of the times you get busted...

This means the villain could 3betshove ATC against your openraises ... (assuming your opening range is somewhat normal)

     
  24-Feb-14, 23:34   #13
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3175
Posted by Theapple:
I still dont think id call a preflop shove that deep with AK. Yes, i know many people would, but im not one of those (yet?) Tongue

Not without any reads on that villian thats it. What most people here dont seem to take into consideration, AK is 2/3 fav vs... 27o. So if your preflop shove gets called with 27o (not saying its gonna happen, just using extremes here Tongue) you can expect to lose 1/3 of the time :=)

what makes AK so good is that it blocks ALL (but pocket A/K) Ax/Kx hands and also why i like it more than lets say QQ. Even if QQ has better equity, as long as you flop A/K you can actually get value out of it (unlike QQ on A/K high board) so yes it does have its uses and its one of best starting hands there are (obviously) but at the same i think its the most overplayed hand too.

JJ/QQ are hands that rarely want to see much postflop action (unless its coming from you obviously), while AK can miss the flop and still warrant a call on both turn and river, as long as you got right odds for making a call :=P

btw im still relatively new to all this (playing online poker for maybe half a year now) but in that time i havent seen a single hand that
a) kicked more people out of tourneys
b) was played so badly postflop

its a great hand, but its not invincible. even 27o will crack your AK 30% of the time, while QJs will do that 38% so ... yea Tongue Still, its a GREAT preflop card, at its best only after you see all 5 cards, so its a no brainer how most of the time its a clear shove in tourney play, but for gods sake people should stop calling pot sized bets with AK when they flop QQx, they really should :=D

ah and one more thing
when i was just starting my first thought after getting AK (even off) was omg i won i won, imo its the most deceptive hole cards you, as a begginer could get. Maybe thats why there are so many misplayed AK? :o

edit:
dear lord, this post ended up like 8x times bigger than intended.. i made a small 'ak brainstorming' topic of my own. oh well, in case someone reads it... theres one thing you should really know about me. i like turtles. wonder how many people will get to the turtle part.

Heart


glad to hear you like turtles theapple
Smile me i like cats.

     
  25-Feb-14, 13:37   #14
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
Zoom poker play is very crazy at these stakes, I see people doing ridiculous bluffs and extreme hero calls all the time when I watch (don´t have bankroll to play these stakes).



     
  25-Feb-14, 16:08   #15
  0 
MB30 

Joined: Jun '12
Location: Greece
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 484
You did not expect people to overvalue AK?
That's joke?I expect to overvalue with total rubbish hands One day had KK. Raise one idiot calls:Flop 5 T 6.I bet Strong moron shoves. After a long thinking I decided that if I would fold KK after that flop I just couldn't play nothing everafter. I called and moron shows 5 T.
Turn was another six and I took down pot. Later I sit down and gave some added thinking:At zoom tables there are two types of players:Those who gonna believe you are bluffing and if they hit even third pair the gonna push you to the limits or those who play only the nuts :High pairs and sets after the flop.
My opinion is that he sees AK as huge hand and tried to exploit possible A(t to q) or just believes he could make you fold Medium pair and caught himself in his own trap.

     
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