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may
21

BLOG: The Problem With Ace-King...

Tags: blog, blogger The Prince of Freerolls
Blog post published on Wednesday, May 21, 2014, written by The Prince of Freerolls.
Interesting stuff from the tables this week. Last week I wrote about a player getting himself into trouble in the patented pocket pair vs Ace-King spot, and the same spot returned to my table this week as well. A final table, no less. This week I'll be looking at this spot from the opposite perspective. Last week I thought that a player overvalued his pocket sevens, calling down a large portion[...]   Read more » The Problem With Ace-King...

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  22-May-14, 01:43   #1
The Problem With Ace-King... 0 
3pokeronly 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 233
I watched some of the main event on PS, I was watching four tables with the shortest stacks on the bubble of the money, 10.3k buy in, 19+k first money level, a Canadian guy holding AK off-suit went all-in from the button or cut-off with about 10bb to be called by small blind with AA and got busted out of the tournament, worse play ever, the table was playing fairly passively, a 2bb bet would normally have taken the pot, if he got re-raised, then fold that AK no issues, no thinking, no worries, he would of have to ranged opponent on no worse than QQ and most probably AA, one terrible overplay cost him at least 19K. Good luck all. 3P

     
  22-May-14, 07:11   #2
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
Obviously everything depends on how many big blinds the player risks.

Under 50BB AK is going in preflop all the time, but in deeper situations you still can fold it.

     
  22-May-14, 09:04   #3
  0 
3pokeronly 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 233
No, that is the wrong approach when average was only 15bb or so anyway and the close to the money, your strategy has to change as to where the tournament and the money is.

     
  22-May-14, 09:16   #4
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5552
Lots of players overvalue their big aces a lot of the times. If you dont hit the flop then you try to over bluff it with what is only ace high. I would love to have this hand every time though!!

     
  22-May-14, 12:22   #5
  0 
Statulis 
Joined: Oct '13
Location: Lithuania
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 5
3pokeronly,
are you seriously suggesting that you shouldn't go all-in with AK with 10 BB left and instead just raise-fold? Don't be ridiculous.

     
  22-May-14, 13:21   #6
  0 
klash23 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 2243
With 15bb I would only be raise folding against a very very tight player,if I thought my opponents in the blinds would call my shove with AQ or worse I would definitely be getting it all in pre flop.
As with all poker it has to be player dependent up to a point and then all players will make their own decision.

     
  22-May-14, 14:04   #7
  0 
3pokeronly 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: New Zealand
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 233
Yes, totally serious, if you can not fold AK in the right spot, I suppose you will never fold QQ either? wait another circuit and then your in the money and then it becomes a , totally different calculation.

     
  22-May-14, 16:03   #8
  0 
vic75 
Joined: Sep '10
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1959
You are right in folding this hand pre flop with that amount of money on the line on or near the bubble your never folding aces in that position i saw a couple years back in the world series of poker main event a AK off pre flop healthy stack all in and the player ran into aces and went bust once you make the money then you can shove these hands with 10 BB although i did see once a Daniel negranu AQ all in pre flop crack Aces happens once in a blue moon Shock Shock Blink Blink Blink

     
  22-May-14, 17:16   #9
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Yeah playing AKS can make you lose money if not done properly as they are basically just two high cards and calling in the hope of getting a pair to beat an already made pair then it will brings to your downfalls at least it is better equity wise compared to AQs who many people even pros overestimate and lose money on that hand. Anyway nice post. I like it and good read!

     
  22-May-14, 19:06   #10
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3179
I have been playing on Party Poker for about 3 weeks now and it's one of the worst hands i've had honestly,i hardly connect with it and there's always a bet on the flop that i have to deal with,i've only won a few times with it so far.That's in tournament play only.

     
  22-May-14, 21:09   #11
  0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 73 (M)
Posts: 3494
When you go all in with AK i think that everyone knows that they are putting their stack in a coin flip position.I sometime do it and sometime limp depending of where i am in the tournament. Worship Worship Worship

     
  22-May-14, 22:41   #12
  0 
teddybears73 
Joined: Nov '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 3179
Posted by pinotte:
When you go all in with AK i think that everyone knows that they are putting their stack in a coin flip position.I sometime do it and sometime limp depending of where i am in the tournament. Worship Worship Worship


Aye i'm the same pinotte ,i don't go all-in with it all the time,i do try and wait untill it's the right mpment.
Big Smile

     
  23-May-14, 03:36   #13
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4862
It's a tough call when you are near the bubble and you are relatively short stacked. This is where your knowledge of your opponents play and the table situation is vital. If you don't know anything as you haven't been properly concentrating and assimilating info, then you may as well just fold and hope for the best to break past the bubble. If you have been assessing your table, and feel it is the time to go all in, on the basis that you have enough fold equity to force others tomfoolery, then do it, but run the risk of coming up against an other hand that could get lucky on the board, especially where everyone else has you covered and their tourney is not on the line.

A big consideration also has to be the relative amount you will get for surviving the bubble. If its 19k, then you may be more likely to fold. If its 19c, then it's all in all the time.somewhere in the middle it's a bit more difficult to call.

My approach for advice is, to each their own. We all,know our own values and strengths. Wll being beaten tilt you big style, or can you just mve on? How lucky do you feel? It's a gamble, that sometimes its worth, and others it's not. Flip that coin!

     
  23-May-14, 03:42   #14
  0 
xgcsnippy 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1066
In a satellite now and have won 2 large hands with AK wooot

in the lead now for my 4th Sunday Storm ticket winning with just FPPs

     
  23-May-14, 05:40   #15
  0 
doomdy 

Joined: May '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46 (M)
Posts: 6197
Posted by 3pokeronly:
I watched some of the main event on PS, I was watching four tables with the shortest stacks on the bubble of the money, 10.3k buy in, 19+k first money level, a Canadian guy holding AK off-suit went all-in from the button or cut-off with about 10bb to be called by small blind with AA and got busted out of the tournament, worse play ever, the table was playing fairly passively, a 2bb bet would normally have taken the pot, if he got re-raised, then fold that AK no issues, no thinking, no worries, he would of have to ranged opponent on no worse than QQ and most probably AA, one terrible overplay cost him at least 19K. Good luck all. 3P


LMAO Big Smile

------------
Posted by 3pokeronly:
Yes, totally serious, if you can not fold AK in the right spot, I suppose you will never fold QQ either? wait another circuit and then your in the money and then it becomes a , totally different calculation.


Ohh God i thought you made a joke Confused
Folding monsters at the bubble, god damn i have to throw up Confused

     
  23-May-14, 08:41   #16
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
It isn´t a tough call with shortstack on the bubble, it is a snap call!

I would only lay it down if I would be with a healthy medium/big stack against a player who has more chips than me, then I wouldn´t probably go all in pre flop with AK.

     
  23-May-14, 11:34   #17
  0 
djpremier 
Joined: Dec '10
Location: Finland
Age: 24 (M)
Posts: 419
Posted by 3pokeronly:
I watched some of the main event on PS, I was watching four tables with the shortest stacks on the bubble of the money, 10.3k buy in, 19+k first money level, a Canadian guy holding AK off-suit went all-in from the button or cut-off with about 10bb to be called by small blind with AA and got busted out of the tournament, worse play ever, the table was playing fairly passively, a 2bb bet would normally have taken the pot, if he got re-raised, then fold that AK no issues, no thinking, no worries, he would of have to ranged opponent on no worse than QQ and most probably AA, one terrible overplay cost him at least 19K. Good luck all. 3P

10bb deep , CO/BTN, AKo is easily profitable shove wether it's the bubble or not...of course if you know 100% sure the blinds only shove KK+ you can raise-fold but I doubt you can rely on that..just push and make your life easier Smile

     
  24-May-14, 17:14   #18
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
It makes me laugh how many people here didn´t understand, that 3pokeronly´s replies were only joke.

     
  25-May-14, 06:56   #19
  0 
jessthehuman 

Joined: Apr '09
Location: Australia
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 6441
Posted by doomdy:
Posted by 3pokeronly:
I watched some of the main event on PS, I was watching four tables with the shortest stacks on the bubble of the money, 10.3k buy in, 19+k first money level, a Canadian guy holding AK off-suit went all-in from the button or cut-off with about 10bb to be called by small blind with AA and got busted out of the tournament, worse play ever, the table was playing fairly passively, a 2bb bet would normally have taken the pot, if he got re-raised, then fold that AK no issues, no thinking, no worries, he would of have to ranged opponent on no worse than QQ and most probably AA, one terrible overplay cost him at least 19K. Good luck all. 3P


LMAO Big Smile

------------
Posted by 3pokeronly:
Yes, totally serious, if you can not fold AK in the right spot, I suppose you will never fold QQ either? wait another circuit and then your in the money and then it becomes a , totally different calculation.


Ohh God i thought you made a joke Confused
Folding monsters at the bubble, god damn i have to throw up Confused



With the amount of poker sites out there and advice on how to play MTTs, it's crazy that people still think like this.

That said - if you manage to satellite into a $10K event and the min-cash is $19K and your usual bankroll is about $10.00, I can honestly understand making the fold, s**t - I could get why people would fold even AA, just to make the money, in that situation.. Personally - I have a *LOT* of gamble in me, despite how anxious/fearful I would be of busting just before a $19K pay-day, NOTHING would make me fold a monster on the bubble.. Maybe if we were talking about $100K+ I *might* fold AK near the bubble, that is a lot of money to gamble with, even if you're beating the range of the villain, I'd never fold KK/AA on the bubble, not even if the min-cash was $1M.

     
  29-May-14, 09:11   #20
  0 
ddblt1970 
Joined: Aug '13
Location: Czech Republic
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 913
Yesterday I have experienced how tricky can AK be. Big Smile Big Smile

2 times chopped pot against a weaker ace. And 2 times beat by a weaker ace...

     
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