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  4-Aug-14, 08:46   #1
Playing AK and missing 0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
One of the most talked about strategies is playing and missing with AK. Assume it's a tournament setting, you're average stack with 50BB and you've committed 6.5BB out of position on a re-raise and the flop comes down J-7-2 rainbow. What's your play here? Assume the player is similar stacked and somewhat loose aggressive. Do you lead for half pot? OVerbet representing strength? Personally I like to lead for 1/3-1/2 pot, representing strength whilst not building a pot that can get too difficult to get away from.

One problem I've experienced with this play is that whilst it works sometimes, it's scary when you get called, because unless an A or K hits the turn, it's very difficult to continue. Cards like Q's and 10's may help, but fills up their range as well as making your hand a bit weaker for flopped top pairs.

Personally, I feel that AK is pretty overrated, especially on these kinds of boards, and TPTK is something a lot of people like to ship against someone who showed pre-flop strength.

Just interested in what you would do in this situation.

     
  4-Aug-14, 08:53   #2
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
1/3 pot represents anything, but surely not strength. Play it like you would play an overpair. At least on the flop. If we get called we can see the turn and try to figure out the opponent, and can decide if we continue, or give up, or get creative.

     
  4-Aug-14, 09:32   #3
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
checking opens yourself to getting bet against, giving you no information. 1/3 might seem weak, but consitent betting might see you get more value in a similar situation than checking, because often the bet will end the hand there. I think 1/2 is probably a better bet, but if you were to get called you'd have to shut down barring an A or K on the turn. I'd make the same play with an overpair.

Hopefully you're in a situation where you've represented being tight so the bet can take it down there, making a call worrisome from a tight player.

If i were the player in position I'd call then bet the turn because the hand usually ends there.

You can get yourself into a position where 1/3 represents whatever you want it to, but yes the bet sizing is a bit small.

     
  4-Aug-14, 09:54   #4
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 5552
It is always a dilemma playing AK when you do not hit on the flop what do you do. I always put a continuation bet in but with the option of folding if i get raised or shutting down if i just get called.Wouldnt mind it every hand though!

     
  4-Aug-14, 09:58   #5
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
AK v 22 run it 1000 times see if you're naturally lucky haha

     
  4-Aug-14, 11:04   #6
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Pre flop I want as much money in the pot as possible (i.e. 3-bet and 4-bet if need be).

On a low flop I'll represent a high pocket pair, and on a flop with broadway cards I'll c-bet, but fold to a reraise, or action later in the hand.

The c-bet is more than half the pot (otherwise you give drawing hands the proper odds to call, which will cost you, if you get you A or K on the turn/river), the same as I would when hitting an A or K.

     
  4-Aug-14, 11:25   #7
  0 
tonespoker 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Australia
Age: 21 (M)
Posts: 218
Do you third barrel on the river assuming all draws missed, and the other player calls flop and turn?

     
  4-Aug-14, 11:35   #8
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
Depends on the opponent. No point in trying to get a calling station to fold its bottom pair. And it depends on the texture of the board. How likely was it, that the opponent was on a draw?

     
  4-Aug-14, 17:14   #9
  0 
Heskor 
Joined: May '13
Location: Mauritius
Age: 25 (M)
Posts: 2659
Haha mate, if you bet on this board by leading i am gonna try to let you take the initiative and then on the turn when you missed again you will check and i will bet half and you will fold and if you bet again on turn i will re raise as you most likely has hit or not, if not you would have folded, if yes you would push all in and i will fold. Most likely on that board, you will only lead if you have top pairs , two pairs or a trio , you dont even have a draw on there, no straight no flush, also most people who have trio or two pairs will push hard, but those who have nothing will tend to bet flop , check turn, fold.

     
  4-Aug-14, 19:09   #10
  0 
mirexxx 
Joined: Sep '11
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2730
Many poker players struggle to distinguish any difference between Ace-King and what David Sklansky refers to as “Group 1” hands such as AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AK suited. He relegates an unsuited AK to his “Group 2” list. While AK suited or not is clearly a nice starting hand it is overvalued by some. The good news is you can get a starting hand of AK a lot more ways than any of the other top starters as we’ll outline next. Blink

     
  4-Aug-14, 21:49   #11
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5682
This is what I know about AK,...

MOST of the time it will lose and cost you...!

I saw Daniel Negraneau say ..."AK is not a hand...!" He was talking about how so many folks misplay AK...

So for months and months I watched both my results from and others' results,...and most of the time it winds up losing...and can get very expensive if you start chasing things to the river with it...

...which incidentally,...I notice a lot of folks chase thing to,...then fold on the river,....so it could be a real winner in THAT sense if you are the one leading off the bets......folks chase,...then miss and fold! Smile

     
  12-Aug-14, 19:56   #12
  0 
Vazh93 
Joined: Jul '14
Location: Philippines
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 9
Are you in position? If you are, and the opponent checks, you can lead with maybe half the pot. If he folds, good for you. If he calls, then checks the turn, you can try to 2-barrel but i don't recommend it since it's possible he might have an over pair or even setting up a trap with pocket jacks.


If your opponent bets on the flop, i'd fold since it's already a re-raised pot, and by calling your basically committing your chips with just air.

If your oop, better check-fold the flop, or if he checks back and the turn card is a blank, you can try to take stab.


Never overplay AK. It just turns into a bluff like any card if you don't hit the board. If pocket aces can get beat, then most certainly can AK as well.

     
  12-Aug-14, 20:07   #13
  0 
mirexxx 
Joined: Sep '11
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 2730

After all, AK is still a drawing hand and not a made one. Even pocket deuces will win more often in the extreme long-run when played heads-up to showdown. In this article I’d like to outline some recommended ways to play AK preflop in different situations.

     
  13-Aug-14, 05:54   #14
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
Yep. 22 will beat AK in the long run, if it is all-in preflop every hand. But this is not a very likely scenario. In the real world AK has a far higher playability, even if it has missed the flop than 22 has, if it has missed the flop.

     
  14-Aug-14, 19:49   #15
  0 
leoberra 
Joined: Apr '10
Location: Argentina
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 129
I'll let my opinion.

No on how to play AK.

But on the most common mistake that people with AK in tournaments.

AK is considered the fourth best starting hand, but also one of the hardest to play (along with JJ).

In the initial stages, I see many players playing too fast AK. That's the biggest mistake I see. They have a lot of chips and put them all with AK, not even a pair.

In the final stages, I'll play AK like AA was ...

     
  14-Aug-14, 21:04   #16
  0 
GoTrixo 

Joined: Dec '11
Location: Germany
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 163
Thank you everyone for all this information. Thanks to topic starter and your opinions. Ql of this led me to think carefully about my play with AKs or o. And I figured out that im aswell doing the same misstake. And overvalue the strength of this hand. Time to change the way to play AK. Thanks a lot

     
  14-Aug-14, 21:47   #17
  0 
leoberra 
Joined: Apr '10
Location: Argentina
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 129
Surely you will learn a lot from this post.

It is true that AK have a premium hand,

but never forget are not aces or kings

and most of the players play as if it were ...

But I'll tell you that not only should apply to AK,

but all poker hands in general:

we will never have the book or something that tells us to or

we should not do in certain situations or with certain hands ..

... that's what makes the game beautiful

     
  14-Aug-14, 22:52   #18
  0 
av1966 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Portugal
Age: 50 (M)
Posts: 1500
There no safe way to play this hand and as always in poker you will loose lot off big hands even with AA
That´s poker and that´s why ,at least me, love to play Worship Worship
Reading the table and your opponents give you some edge but you always can be beat but still a very nice hand to start mainly if the AK are suited

     
  14-Aug-14, 22:53   #19
  0 
LIKEIT27 
Joined: Jul '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 704
Posted by tonespoker:
Do you third barrel on the river assuming all draws missed, and the other player calls flop and turn?



Its hard to say iff you dont say how mutch the first two raises were
Blink

     
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