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  3-Dec-14, 12:04   #1
all in preflop. 0 
GtodaM001 
Joined: Dec '14
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 87
Look guys (and gals) I understand that aggression is a good thing in poker at the right times and in the right circumstances... but what I am seeing is becoming the absolute norm on most poker sites out there. ALL IN ALL IN ALL IN... what the **** is with these people? The thing that gets me most is that if I am sitting there with pocket aces I am of course hoping for action. though they go all in with like 10 4 O/S and take me out with a four card board flush. Especially in tournies, I feel as though I should fold the first 10 hands regardless of what I have in my hand. I guess I am just trying to find out if it is just me and do I have this wrong? Or do we have to hunt these people down and take all there chips one way or another? Give me your thoughts on this will ya?

     
  3-Dec-14, 12:12   #2
  +1 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Just make good +EV choices. Sure that will sometimes means you're out, but on average you'll be better of with a big stack, that pays for the times you got unlucky.
Don't fold your AA preflop...
Also don't register late, since then you'll be competing with others that took advantage of the guys going all-in with T4o (and that should be you).

     
  3-Dec-14, 12:33   #3
  0 
klash23 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 2243
I think it is definitely becoming more common in the low buy in tournaments and as marquis says just take advantage of the idiots,it will pay in the end,also make sure you take notes on the all in donkeys.
I was recently playing on the william hill poker site and there was someone playing like a total moron and someone asked why and he basically said that the big stack always wins,unfortunately after a couple of wins he then lost most of chips and then was out soon after but a lot of players truly believe that the rigtards are telling the truth. Smile

     
  3-Dec-14, 13:58   #4
  0 
xgcsnippy 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1066
Posted by GtodaM001:
Look guys (and gals) I understand that aggression is a good thing in poker at the right times and in the right circumstances... but what I am seeing is becoming the absolute norm on most poker sites out there. ALL IN ALL IN ALL IN... what the **** is with these people? The thing that gets me most is that if I am sitting there with pocket aces I am of course hoping for action. though they go all in with like 10 4 O/S and take me out with a four card board flush. Especially in tournies, I feel as though I should fold the first 10 hands regardless of what I have in my hand. I guess I am just trying to find out if it is just me and do I have this wrong? Or do we have to hunt these people down and take all there chips one way or another? Give me your thoughts on this will ya?


You are spot on from what I have been seeing lately, rebuys are even worse because money is no factor to some of these idiots. I have lost numerous hands lately with AA KK AK QQ and JJ from these idiots shoving 7/4, 8/3 , 22 etc


     
  3-Dec-14, 14:06   #5
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
You shouldn't assume these people are "idiots"... Interesting blog I came across on another site, that seems appropriate here:

Written by casy151:

Brian takes the train a lot. When he is travelling solo, he likes to read a book and relax. There are days, however, when groups of boisterous teens or arguing couples ruin his relaxing journey.
‘Those inconsiderate so-and-sos’ thinks Brian, ‘how could anybody be so rude and oblivious to the noise they’re making? Anybody making that much commotion on a public train is clearly a selfish person. I bet they were brought up badly by their parents.’
This time it’s different!

A week later, and Brian is travelling to the cup final with his friends. Some beers get cracked open, a sing-song is started. Brian is loving every second when a middle-aged lady catches his eye. He knows exactly what she’s thinking: ‘those inconsiderate so-and-sos…’
But this is different. It’s the cup final! Brian is with the guys! He hasn’t seen some of them for years! Plus, it’s a one-off. Brian doesn’t usually act like this…


Can you relate to Brian?
Here’s the crucial bit: when reflecting on others, we tend to use their behaviour to make judgments as to their character. Someone who is obnoxious in public is a rude person.
When reflecting on ourselves, we tend to use circumstances to explain our behaviour. When we are obnoxious in public, it is because of the external factors. It is cup final day, or it is because we are excited at catching up with friends.
We do not re-evaluate our character because of our actions, but we do use them to evaluate the character of others.
This is called correspondence bias.
In poker, we are quick to label players as fish (or nits, or nutters, or whatever) based on a hand that we deem bizarre. We use scanty evidence to make judgements as to the character of our opponents, deeming them tilt-monkeys or probable-drunks or likely-degens, because they played a hand of poker a little strangely.
However, when we make a reckless re-jam or a loose call, we dismiss it as a misread or a misclick or a mystery. We blame the circumstances – often with due reason – for our errors in judgement. Even when we know that we are on tilt, we write it off as an anomalous development which is not representative of our typical poker game.
Character vs Behaviour

There are people who have multiple affairs or who commit fraud or who bite other players on the football pitch who will argue that they are not bad people, but they had a momentary lapse in judgment.
Outsiders looking in, so quick to judge, will label them ‘scumbags’ and speculate that they are bad parents, liabilities as employees, and selfish in all aspects of life.
Brian on the train will argue that he acted selfishly, but is not a selfish person. Then in his next breath, he will argue that the couple having a shouting match on the train are selfish people and terrible partners and bad parents.
Correspondence bias in poker can be kept in check by refraining from making judgements as to the character or traits of opponents, based on moves that could be explained by circumstances (game flow, erroneous belief in fold equity, mass-multi-tabling misclicks etc).
And, by extension, it is important to task your poker coach with keeping you in check when it comes to justifying your own play. Sometimes you will be on tilt and eager to blame it on external factors. Make your coach earn their money by keeping a close eye on the development of leaks that you are eager to blame on easily-explainable errors.
Does correspondence bias ring a bell with you? Have a little think about scenarios in which you are too quick to extend your judgements as to behaviour onto their character, and give the article a share on Facebook and Twitter!


     
  3-Dec-14, 14:20   #6
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
Posted by yout85:
You shouldn't assume these people are "idiots"... Interesting blog I came across on another site, that seems appropriate here:

Written by casy151:
...

Nicely put. Of course you need to make relatively quick judgements about opponents, based on incomplete information. But be aware that incorrectly labeling someone is probably more expensive than not labeling them at all. So make sure you have a good chance of getting it right.
One way of doing this is to review your sessions, and then take notes (e.g. with HEM2) taking into account previous engagements with that player.
I do have to admit I'm preaching here, not actually practicing... Blink

     
  3-Dec-14, 14:21   #7
  -1 
xgcsnippy 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1066
Sorry Man

Someone playing like an idiot is clearly an idiot same as someone that has not showered is clearly dirty!
There are no roundabouts about it!

Just saying!

     
  3-Dec-14, 15:55   #8
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 8643
all in pre-flop means that you cannot press any buttons on the flop, turn, river.... booooring.

i have a distinct clue that flop/turn/river does have some sort of meaning in poker (other than just watching cards and praying) so i am not impressed about the present state of poker where the main objective is to play more, quicker, hyper aggro etc. this trend begins to smell like pure gambling

     
  3-Dec-14, 15:59   #9
  0 
klash23 
Joined: Mar '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 38 (F)
Posts: 2243
If I am playing a tournament and someone shoves all in every hand no matter what hand they have or what action has happened before them I am fairly certain I haven't bumped into Phil Ivey mixing up his game. Smile
I think when you have played for a while you can recognize how someone is playing and if someone is playing differently to how they normally play and hopefully your judgement of a player in a particular hand turns out to be correct.

     
  3-Dec-14, 18:24   #10
  0 
StS5 
Joined: Aug '14
Location: Germany
Age: 36 (M)
Posts: 766
Hello man,

as I am plaing a lot of freerolls I know exactely what you mean. Especially at the beginning of tournaments there are countless all ins with each kind of hands. But hey if you have a strong hand just call and win.

     
  4-Dec-14, 15:35   #11
  0 
GtodaM001 
Joined: Dec '14
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 87
yes of course you are right with just making the right choice with the strong hand but it is just so frustrating Angry . When people do this I usually go into the chat and remind them that there are actual BINGO sights out there it that is all they want to do. essentially that is what they are doing anyway.

------------
Very cool perspective. Thanks for that yout85. It really did get me thinking ... but it is still frustrating lol

     
  4-Dec-14, 16:47   #12
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 2121
Well, usually shoving is correct when you're under 20 BBs (depending on format/strucuture) because you can't really raise/fold to a 3bet and you need a double up. A lot of people don't care about being at 40% or 20%, they just want an early double up. These players are easy to take advantage of. It's frustrating but you have to think patience and discipline. These 2 qualities are what makes a good poker player (especially in MTTs).

A lot of players call every hand out of position, to me it's worse than being an over-agressive-over-betting maniac. But both of these "styles" are terrible in a MTT in the long run. Keep that in mind Blink

     
  4-Dec-14, 17:54   #13
  0 
xgcsnippy 

Joined: Jan '13
Location: Canada
Age: 38 (M)
Posts: 1066
I only call out of position if I have a decent hand, I mean I honestly always get swamped with an ACE/X hand constant in these situations and the time I dont call they hit! The time I call I get sucked out on the river by someone with say 7/2 so it can get very frustrating!


In recent games I have learned to fold even A/k when these donks are shoving because when you get 2-3 shovers pre flop my A/K hardly ever hits!




     
  5-Dec-14, 11:55   #14
  0 
jsikonja 

Joined: Mar '14
Location: Slovenia
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 255
Posted by marqis:
Just make good +EV choices. Sure that will sometimes means you're out, but on average you'll be better of with a big stack, that pays for the times you got unlucky.
Don't fold your AA preflop...
Also don't register late, since then you'll be competing with others that took advantage of the guys going all-in with T4o (and that should be you).


Registering late works just fine for me, there are lots of big stacks around and they will often call your ALL IN with shittier cards in hand.

     
  5-Dec-14, 15:43   #15
  0 
GtodaM001 
Joined: Dec '14
Location: Canada
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 87
Thanks for your reply machine. I do agree about the perpetual callers as well.
As far as the pre flop all ins I am referring to the all innners every hand until they are all out. They seem to get lucky and take out some good players with there crap hands. In the long run these people do end up out because luck can take you only so far. It just suck being one of the casualties of these perpetual all inners.

     
  5-Dec-14, 19:13   #16
  0 
BeMyATMplz 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 1854
Some of the situations where people shove "crap hands" it will actually be plus EV..I see a lot of people calling me "all in donkey" when I shove with,say, 8BB any2 in SB blind vs. blind, in situations where it's pretty clearly +EV. Maybe before complaining you guys should earn some more knowledge. Seeing you complain about"bad play" shows you have by far not enough.

     
  5-Dec-14, 20:38   #17
  0 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 73 (M)
Posts: 3495
Posted by BeMyATMplz:
Some of the situations where people shove "crap hands" it will actually be plus EV..I see a lot of people calling me "all in donkey" when I shove with,say, 8BB any2 in SB blind vs. blind, in situations where it's pretty clearly +EV. Maybe before complaining you guys should earn some more knowledge. Seeing you complain about"bad play" shows you have by far not enough.


You are talking about some situation which i could name distress call this is OK to me but i think here we are talking about aa guy that would go all in every hand even with a big stack. You are not playin freeroll but in these game you see that kind of guy very often. Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
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