Joined: Jul '14
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'Poker isn't about making money, it's about making the right decisions' is quite often the contention of pretty much all poker books. Making right decisions allows you to play with the least possible variance.
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Posted by tonespoker: 'Poker isn't about making money, it's about making the right decisions' is quite often the contention of pretty much all poker books. Making right decisions allows you to play with the least possible variance.
exactly thats what we are trying to say to him, but he is getting angry, and talk that win is only important... you won now, but you must learn how to win much more, and lose much less
Joined: Sep '10
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Posted by StheP: good play is good play... like having AA and folding when you know that you are beated...
Firstly how do you know your beaten? It could be a bluff!! Best if we state " You think you are beaten" Unless you can see his cards in all honesty you don't know......
My honest opinion awesome hand if you win it, but a s**t one if you lose... Now if the cards have been fallen your way and luck seems to be in well run it.And come on people relise it is played at JokerStars, where a good 85%+ first all in wins no matter the cards ( come on look at the cards drop after his all in = Q 10, what do you know just excastly what he needed. Happens so much )
No about Limping (bowie's favourite word) I think you seem to have a negative view about "Limping" but I think limping can be used in a very positive way earlie in a game.
This guy put it a good way "An open limp is the first one that just pays the bigblind instead of raising.
In most cases it is a weak gameplay because...
... if you've a good hand, you got to protect it and raise instead of just limping. ... if you've a worse hand, your get rid of it and not waste chips for it.
Because it tells everyone on the table that you got a "ok"-hand, not strong, not bad or maybe bad, but obviously not strong.
But in a few cases it makes sense to open limp. Example:
Player A is bigblind with $100. Everyone beside the button (Player B) and small blind folded. Player B on botton holds AA (aces) and he knows that if he'd raise both (SB and BB) would fold. Player B just calls and pays the $100 -> open limp. Smallblind folds. Player A checks. It's risky for someone with a strong hand to open limp or just limp, because he has no clue about the cards of the villian.
Edit: Another good reason to openlimp/limp with a strong hand is when you are in early position. If you've one or more loose aggressive players behind you, you could just limp in early position and expect that one of the players behind you raise. If this happens you can reraise and build a pretty pot."
------------ And Mate if your not trying to make a quid out of poker and enjoy playing how you do then keep it up, If you want to make money maybe you need to adjust your game.
Rasheek u should never openlimp with AA - or with other monster hand - from any position ever. Your opponents will see the flop dirt cheap and every one of them who joins your limp is diminishing your cards value and your chance for a possible positive outcome during this and as a first limper you kinda openly invited them to do it.
Most players either openlimp with monsters or just suited connectors, suited rags (and in freerolls basicaly any2 cards). Limping won't mask your hands away for good, it just barely puts a makeup on it. Do not get me wrong I'm not against limping - it's a fairly effective tool for some setmining etc. but doing this while being the first one to act out of position is equals - to me at least - offering up your chips for charity.
Someone always going to recognize if the table is loose passive/tight passive and he/she will have a field day against their range IMO.
Just my two cents - it's not mandatory following me.
Joined: Feb '11
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I don't understand the hate in the first few posts... I see ridiculous plays posted on here almost daily and see no reason why to bash someone simply because they aren't good players (that's where the money in the game comes from if you don't get it...), either give advice or just shut up about how one played HIS hand.
Joined: Oct '14
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Posted by rasheek77:
Posted by StheP: good play is good play... like having AA and folding when you know that you are beated...
Firstly how do you know your beaten? It could be a bluff!! Best if we state " You think you are beaten" Unless you can see his cards in all honesty you don't know......
Ofcourse you could know, if you and 2 players are in pot, and you fold aces, and see on showdown of 2 other players that you are beaten
Joined: Feb '11
Location: Germany
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Posted by StheP:
Posted by rasheek77:
Posted by StheP: good play is good play... like having AA and folding when you know that you are beated...
Firstly how do you know your beaten? It could be a bluff!! Best if we state " You think you are beaten" Unless you can see his cards in all honesty you don't know......
Ofcourse you could know, if you and 2 players are in pot, and you fold aces, and see on showdown of 2 other players that you are beaten
I have no clue what this means sorry So someone downgraded my posts, this is no problem at all, shows how many arguments these people have (none). Downgrading the OP is ridiculous though. No one realises that he even had the odds to call all along. Stupidity at it's best.
Joined: Sep '10
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Posted by arsenej1: Its a 25$ freeroll with a gizzillion players. Id call with 73o n hope for the best.
Now this is the best post in this section Arsenej1 Spot on champ spot on.
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Posted by BeMyATMplz: I don't understand the hate in the first few posts... I see ridiculous plays posted on here almost daily and see no reason why to bash someone simply because they aren't good players (that's where the money in the game comes from if you don't get it...), either give advice or just shut up about how one played HIS hand.
Your spot on MyATMplz, nobody can say they play perfect or never bluff. we all make mistakes and play bad. I know i do all the time But i know i am a s**t player and I'm proud to be honest, better than pretending to be something i am NOT.
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Posted by bowie1984: Rasheek u should never openlimp with AA - or with other monster hand - from any position ever. Your opponents will see the flop dirt cheap and every one of them who joins your limp is diminishing your cards value and your chance for a possible positive outcome during this and as a first limper you kinda openly invited them to do it.
Most players either openlimp with monsters or just suited connectors, suited rags (and in freerolls basicaly any2 cards). Limping won't mask your hands away for good, it just barely puts a makeup on it. Do not get me wrong I'm not against limping - it's a fairly effective tool for some setmining etc. but doing this while being the first one to act out of position is equals - to me at least - offering up your chips for charity.
Someone always going to recognize if the table is loose passive/tight passive and he/she will have a field day against their range IMO.
Just my two cents - it's not mandatory following me.
Your probable right you know, I am a s**t player. But hopefully i will learn a little.... Oh i think you will be one person comming hard for me in the X-mas games. Be worth knocking me out and getting the last laugh at me then ay
Edited by rasheek77 (07 December 2014 @ 14:47 GMT)
BeMYATM --> If no one tells him it's bad poker, how is he gonna know? He thinks it's a good play and keeps defending it only because he won which is a completly flawed logic. Why would you even limp Q10 in that position on a full table? I just hate the limp, which makes him vulnerable and is terrible in the long run. When I say donk play or donk move, it's not an insult, it means what it means.
You're gonna be 4-way, with about 15% chance to win everytime and you don't dominate anything. Please explain how that's a good spot? I'd rather open shove any 2 than play Q10o like that. When you play small ball poker, you're gonna have odds to call the 2x raise every hand, you're still gonna have to make decisions. Odds arent what make decisions for you, they're just a factor to take into consideration before making a decision.
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Posted by TheMachineQC: BeMYATM --> If no one tells him it's bad poker, how is he gonna know? He thinks it's a good play and keeps defending it only because he won which is a completly flawed logic. Why would you even limp Q10 in that position on a full table? I just hate the limp, which makes him vulnerable and is terrible in the long run. When I say donk play or donk move, it's not an insult, it means what it means.
You're gonna be 4-way, with about 15% chance to win everytime and you don't dominate anything. Please explain how that's a good spot? I'd rather open shove any 2 than play Q10o like that. When you play small ball poker, you're gonna have odds to call the 2x raise every hand, you're still gonna have to make decisions. Odds arent what make decisions for you, they're just a factor to take into consideration before making a decision.
No one has given any advice during the first few posts, neither why it's a bad play nor anything else. Instead there were ridiculous posts that help no one. The main part of his posts says that he doesn't want others to tell him how to play, not defending his play (which would be reasonable because if someone tells you "you played bad", a usual reaction is to justify himself). No one (neither did I) say that he played the hand well at any point, but none of the first posts are helping anyone. Last thing I point out about your above post is your logic about odds. You want to tell me how odds work, yet you badly want to have a hand we can "dominate with" when we only need roughly 20% equity with to call profitably (which we do, I don't know what planet you're living on where people play ridiculously tight ranges in a freeroll). Before trying to tell me how odds and outs work maybe "improve your own knowledge first" (to say it in a nice way)
Posted by rasheek77: Your probable right you know, I am a s**t player. But hopefully i will learn a little.... Oh i think you will be one person comming hard for me in the X-mas games. Be worth knocking me out and getting the last laugh at me then ay
I am not some pokergod or anything, this was just my opinion. I am going to be at work during this years x-mas game, so no - there's an 85% chance on that you won't be meeting with me at the tables on the evening of dec. 20th.
So you're saying it's unlikely for one of the 3 players to have QJ, KQ, AQ, K10, A10 and 1010+ in a full table? Not sure about that one. He was at 12% pre flop. No fold equity, the only way he can win is by hitting hard. And yes there are many nits in freerolls, not sure what planet you live on.
Joined: Feb '11
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Posted by TheMachineQC: So you're saying it's unlikely for one of the 3 players to have QJ, KQ, AQ, K10, A10 and 1010+ in a full table? Not sure about that one. He was at 12% pre flop. No fold equity, the only way he can win is by hitting hard. And yes there are many nits in freerolls, not sure what planet you live on.
I am not playing freerolls, but calculating it with 25% range (surely people can be wider even in this pirticular freeroll) then Q10 has about 21% equity. Usually I wouldn't say it because I find it disgusting,but: once you have proven results feel free to correct me, right now this isn''t the case.
What you're saying doesn't make this limp/call play any better. You said yourself it was a bad play so stop defending it you're not making any sense whatsoever. I understand what you meant about positive critisism, but I already said I never insulted the player, I insulted the play itself, and didn't like how he didn't care about other people's advice. He's posting this very questionable play on a public forum he should expect it.
And BTW I couldn't care less about what you think I know about poker. Fact is, on a full table in a 4-way all-in situation Q10 will be dominated very often. Too often to make this a profitable play IMO. But we can agree to disagree I guess.
thats what we are trying to say to him, but he is getting angry, and talk that win is only important... you won now, but you must learn how to win much more, and lose much less 
Arsenej1 Spot on champ spot on.
But i know i am a s**t player and I'm proud to be honest, better than pretending to be something i am NOT.
