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  4-Dec-15, 16:10   #1
im mean wtfffff seriously 0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 560
just wtf

PokerStarshand #144810095205: Toernooi #1392637063, Freeroll Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 04/12/2015 17:05:35 CET [04/12/2015 11:05:35 ET]
Tafel '1392637063 654' 9-max Plaats #7 is de button
Plaats 1: arrow-knee- (6328 in chips)
Plaats 2: erisvaldo1 (2600 in chips)
Plaats 3: Mazol474 (6350 in chips)
Plaats 4: lowrid3r_69 (6632 in chips)
Plaats 5: pomanius (6237 in chips)
Plaats 6: pokertime661 (7395 in chips)
Plaats 7: poni2009 (1189 in chips)
Plaats 8: seregatatosk (12202 in chips)
Plaats 9: 1wasser1 (1919 in chips)
arrow-knee-: zet de ante 40
erisvaldo1: zet de ante 40
Mazol474: zet de ante 40
lowrid3r_69: zet de ante 40
pomanius: zet de ante 40
pokertime661: zet de ante 40
poni2009: zet de ante 40
seregatatosk: zet de ante 40
1wasser1: zet de ante 40
seregatatosk: zet small blind 100
1wasser1: zet big blind 200
*** GESLOTEN KAARTEN ***
Gedeeld aan arrow-knee- [Ad Tc]
arrow-knee-: raiset 200 naar 400
erisvaldo1: foldt
Mazol474: foldt
lowrid3r_69: callt 400
pomanius: foldt
pokertime661: foldt
poni2009: foldt
seregatatosk: foldt
1wasser1: callt 200
*** FLOP *** [9h Td 6d]
1wasser1: checkt
arrow-knee-: bet 1660
lowrid3r_69: callt 1660
1wasser1: foldt
*** TURN *** [9h Td 6d] 7 of spades
arrow-knee-: bet 4228 en is all-in
lowrid3r_69: callt 4228
*** RIVER *** [9h Td 6d 7s] 4 of spades
*** SHOWDOWN ***
arrow-knee-: toont [Ad Tc] (een pair Tienen)
lowrid3r_69: toont [4h 6c] (twee pair, Zessen en Vieren)
lowrid3r_69 won 13436 van pot
arrow-knee- zei, "wtf dude"
arrow-knee- zei, "really................"
arrow-knee- zei, "fu im timebank the **** out of this fu chaser"
arrow-knee- zei, "<'))><"
arrow-knee- is door zijn tijd heen
arrow-knee- is op de 2957e plaats in het toernooi geëindigd
*** SAMENVATTING ***
Totale pot 13436 | Rake 0
Board [9h Td 6d 7s 4s]
Plaats 1: arrow-knee- toonde [Ad Tc] en verloor met een pair Tienen
Plaats 2: erisvaldo1 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 3: Mazol474 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 4: lowrid3r_69 toonde [4h 6c] en won (13436) met twee pair, Zessen en Vieren
Plaats 5: pomanius foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 6: pokertime661 foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 7: poni2009 (button) foldde voor de Flop (bette niet)
Plaats 8: seregatatosk (small blind) foldde voor de Flop
Plaats 9: 1wasser1 (big blind) foldde op de Flop



Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
  4-Dec-15, 16:53   #2
  +1 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3028
its a freaking freeroll, what do you expect? Proffesional play?

     
  4-Dec-15, 17:03   #3
  0 
vic75 
Joined: Sep '10
Location: Canada
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 1914
This hand last night from 888 cash game table AA vs KQ suited i am surprised nothing got smashed had outs on the river Angry Evil Aww crap! Aww crap!

Attached ImagesScreenHunter_140 Dec. 04 12.03.jpg

     
  4-Dec-15, 17:26   #4
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5593
... Big Smile< I hear ya dude...!!! I've been getting SMASHED to HELL just like below for weeks now...!

... Big Smile< VERY Frustrating...!!! Angry

Seat 8: ilditibi2 (big blind) showed [3s 8c] and won (2,900) with two pair, Eights and Threes
Seat 9: demodawggy showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens

Full Tilt Poker Game #36082392895: Coin Freeroll (304688402), Table 79 - NL Hold'em - 250/500 Ante 50 - 16:53:02 ET - 2015/11/24
Seat 1: pokerk3ks (5,460)
Seat 2: SerVasilich (5,137), is sitting out
Seat 3: rybak52 (3,311)
Seat 4: fongsokol (4,178)
Seat 5: colonel jimbo (1,772)
Seat 6: DenNas78 (10,496)
Seat 7: girlingo (600), is sitting out
Seat 8: ilditibi2 (2,760)
Seat 9: demodawggy (1,150)
pokerk3ks antes 50
SerVasilich antes 50
rybak52 antes 50
fongsokol antes 50
colonel jimbo antes 50
DenNas78 antes 50
girlingo antes 50
ilditibi2 antes 50
demodawggy antes 50
girlingo posts the small blind of 250
ilditibi2 posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to demodawggy [Qs Qc]
demodawggy has 15 seconds left to act
demodawggy has requested TIME
demodawggy raises to 1,100, and is all in
pokerk3ks has 15 seconds left to act
pokerk3ks folds
SerVasilich folds
rybak52 has 15 seconds left to act
rybak52 folds
fongsokol folds
colonel jimbo folds
DenNas78 folds
girlingo folds
ilditibi2 has 15 seconds left to act
ilditibi2 has requested TIME
ilditibi2 calls 600
demodawggy shows [Qs Qc]
ilditibi2 shows [3s 8c]
*** FLOP *** [Td 9c 4s] (Total Pot: 2,900, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
*** TURN *** [Td 9c 4s] 8 of hearts (Total Pot: 2,900, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
*** RIVER *** [Td 9c 4s 8h] 3 of clubs (Total Pot: 2,900, 2 Players, 1 All-In)
demodawggy shows a pair of Queens
ilditibi2 shows two pair, Eights and Threes
ilditibi2 wins the pot (2,900) with two pair, Eights and Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,900 | Rake 0
Board: [Td 9c 4s 8h 3c]
Seat 1: pokerk3ks folded before the Flop
Seat 2: SerVasilich folded before the Flop
Seat 3: rybak52 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: fongsokol folded before the Flop
Seat 5: colonel jimbo folded before the Flop
Seat 6: DenNas78 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: girlingo (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: ilditibi2 (big blind) showed [3s 8c] and won (2,900) with two pair, Eights and Threes
Seat 9: demodawggy showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens

     
  4-Dec-15, 17:54   #5
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3028
Posted by vic75:
This hand last night from 888 cash game table AA vs KQ suited i am surprised nothing got smashed had outs on the river Angry Evil Aww crap! Aww crap!

I dont know why are you complaining... that things happend... today I got AA hit on flop A guy had TT and hit on river broadway.... put odds on flop I had something like 98% because he needed running broadway cards or running T...

     
  4-Dec-15, 18:07   #6
  0 
Ingrind33 

Joined: Sep '15
Location: Netherlands
Age: 34 (F)
Posts: 477
Welcome to the world of poker.

The reason why that happened is because your poker client is in DUTCH!!

Big Smile

Seriously!?!?!?, why do people put software in their own language, USE THE ORIGINAL ENGLISH VERSION, ALWAYS!

Don't you have to cringe when you see those horrible translated buttons and menu list items. (I am aware of my poor English though.)

ps: one time on the 888 client a DUTCH player with a dutch client could NOT see the freerolls I could access with my normal English software. Worship

so stop playing your games in your own language and install everything in English next time.

little bit off-topic, but it annoys me Sleepy


     
  4-Dec-15, 19:03   #7
  +1 
crash58 
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Canada
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 2423
Posted by Ingrind33:
Welcome to the world of poker.

The reason why that happened is because your poker client is in DUTCH!!






Really, you think he got a bad beat, because he has the poker client in his own language.
Confused Confused

     
  4-Dec-15, 22:03   #8
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3028
Posted by crash58:
Posted by Ingrind33:
Welcome to the world of poker.

The reason why that happened is because your poker client is in DUTCH!!






Really, you think he got a bad beat, because he has the poker client in his own language.
Confused Confused

LOL hahahahah Thumbs Up

     
  5-Dec-15, 01:04   #9
  0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 560
Posted by StheP:
Posted by vic75:
This hand last night from 888 cash game table AA vs KQ suited i am surprised nothing got smashed had outs on the river Angry Evil Aww crap! Aww crap!

I dont know why are you complaining... that things happend... today I got AA hit on flop A guy had TT and hit on river broadway.... put odds on flop I had something like 98% because he needed running broadway cards or running T...

i mean i know it happens i just dont understand this guy was playing tighter then a virgin and we were 300 peeps off the bubble,
then he does this and gets rewarded xD ohwell its a freeroll indeed i just cant comprehend it lol Aww crap!

     
  5-Dec-15, 08:36   #10
  0 
damosk 
Joined: Feb '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 52 (M)
Posts: 4716
Ya win some, ya lose some, and some ya just can't fathom. I have studied this hand for a few minutes now and can see no rhyme nor reason why this happened.... Other than...... that's poker. Sometimes these freak things happen and the odds gods went with the crazy player. Give it a punt and you just never know what may come of it....we've all done it...... Haven't we?

     
  5-Dec-15, 08:54   #11
  +1 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2183
not as bad as people are making out tbh

he put 400 into a 1500 pot pf which is a losing play but if he puts you on aq, aj etc then its in his range.

you pot bet, which showed weakness, iirc how you play and figured he was ahead. again this is a poor call, he should have shoved you all in. this would have forced you to fold.

then he called all in when ahead.

this is one of those hands where we learn way more from your play than his.

First you min raised which is a play I hate and nearly always represents rags. And you did this as first to act. Your move there should have been fold preflop.

next you pot betted without knowing where you were in the hand and were left pretty much committed with NO idea what your opponent had. a smaller bet would have told you more. You either need to bet less, and get out of the hand cheaply or keep a pot small. a bigger bet would have left me sure you had ace high or similar

Then you went all in, again out of position and not having any idea what your oppo had. he called your raise preflop, he called your pot bet on flop and still you have no info from him except he has some kind of hand, and your decision was to push all in with only top pair against someone you know has a hand.

The river didn't screw you, you screwed yourself I am afraid, by playing a poor hand poorly. The fact you were ahead changes nothing here.

Ranting about fish wont make any difference to your play except lose you more money. Looking at what you did wrong will save you money and make you profit.

his play was bad but I believe your play was worse. be grateful you lost the hand and posted here, it will help improve your game longterm


     
  5-Dec-15, 08:57   #12
  +1 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2075
that is called the freeroll effect
where you gonna play against these people
and it is gonna make you go on tilt
that is why i usually now avoid those pokerstars games
anyway just forget about it , don't let it bother you
good luck in future games

------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:



this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots

Edited by Skpmorita (Saturday, December 05, 2015 @ 09:10 GMT)


     
  5-Dec-15, 09:35   #13
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1453
Posted by damosk:
Ya win some, ya lose some, and some ya just can't fathom. I have studied this hand for a few minutes now and can see no rhyme nor reason why this happened.... Other than...... that's poker. Sometimes these freak things happen and the odds gods went with the crazy player. Give it a punt and you just never know what may come of it....we've all done it...... Haven't we?



Agree Thumbs Up Thumbs Up That's poker !! ( for beginner, maybe Big Smile Big Smile ) Not just happen at freeroll !
Happen at buy in tourney, too. Especially at R/A tourney before add on break. So sometimes in your lucky day you have to play crazy to win first place.

I hope some expert give their opinion about that in this forum, but never found it Aww crap! Aww crap!

     
  5-Dec-15, 09:57   #14
  0 
Skpmorita 
Joined: Feb '14
Location: Tunisia
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2075
Posted by Serpang:
So sometimes in your lucky day you have to play crazy to win first place.


this is what is wrong with online poker player .
this statement literally gave me cancer

no offence to anyone , also i am not good poker player or not even decent
but poker does depend on luck but it doesn't mean you play 'crazy' because we are not Psychics and don't know what is gonna happen .
so all you can do is play your best and you should depend more on mathematics .

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending the stack sizes plus the tournament format ..
but to call when you were 2% to win and you risk a lot of your stack , just because you were ' feeling lucky' that's just retarded

     
  5-Dec-15, 09:57   #15
  0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 560
Posted by IceQueenAce:
not as bad as people are making out tbh

he put 400 into a 1500 pot pf which is a losing play but if he puts you on aq, aj etc then its in his range.

you pot bet, which showed weakness, iirc how you play and figured he was ahead. again this is a poor call, he should have shoved you all in. this would have forced you to fold.

then he called all in when ahead.

this is one of those hands where we learn way more from your play than his.

First you min raised which is a play I hate and nearly always represents rags. And you did this as first to act. Your move there should have been fold preflop.

next you pot betted without knowing where you were in the hand and were left pretty much committed with NO idea what your opponent had. a smaller bet would have told you more. You either need to bet less, and get out of the hand cheaply or keep a pot small. a bigger bet would have left me sure you had ace high or similar

Then you went all in, again out of position and not having any idea what your oppo had. he called your raise preflop, he called your pot bet on flop and still you have no info from him except he has some kind of hand, and your decision was to push all in with only top pair against someone you know has a hand.

The river didn't screw you, you screwed yourself I am afraid, by playing a poor hand poorly. The fact you were ahead changes nothing here.

Ranting about fish wont make any difference to your play except lose you more money. Looking at what you did wrong will save you money and make you profit.

his play was bad but I believe your play was worse. be grateful you lost the hand and posted here, it will help improve your game longterm


im sorry but i hve to call b******t here this makes no sense you leave out so many thigns so your story is true
1. that you hate to raise minum is your problem i think its a normal play instead of rampaging all in go play bingo
2. as you see the blinds are 200 400 the average here is about 8 to 10k i believe i make the small bet under the gun wich is not a poor move as you make it out to especially with A 10 he is in middle position he calls 400 6632 is his stack i give that calling 400 in is not much but then he cals a raise of 1660 wich is more then 25% of his remaining stack with bottem pair this is the point where he should have folded if he knows how to play poker he calls in again there is no straight nor flush chance for him at this point then the 7 drops his chances of hitting straight are out the window he knows this for the rest im just gonna copy skipmorita' s post

this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots

icequeen even though your comment makes no sense i wish you the best of luck in the tables on the tables and under the tables

arrow-knee- Big Smile

ps: please explain this one i cant understand how t f you came to this conlusion

you pot bet, which showed weakness

     
  5-Dec-15, 10:14   #16
  0 
Tony_MON7ANA 

Joined: Mar '14
Location: Japan
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 3660
Did you really have to bloat the pot with one pair type hand post-flop out of position on a relatively scary board texture?
You could have taken a path to a cheap show-down by investing a bit smaller amount (40% to 60% of the pot) on flop and just check/calling on turn and river.

Your opponent's flat call with 64o is just awful, I have to add.
Terrible.

Edited by Tony_MON7ANA (Saturday, December 05, 2015 @ 10:44 GMT)


     
  5-Dec-15, 15:24   #17
  0 
arrow-knee- 

Joined: Jul '12
Location: Netherlands
Age: 23 (M)
Posts: 560
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Did you really have to bloat the pot with one pair type hand post-flop out of position on a relatively scary board texture?
You could have taken a path to a cheap show-down by investing a bit smaller amount (40% to 60% of the pot) on flop and just check/calling on turn and river.

Your opponent's flat call with 64o is just awful, I have to add.
Terrible.


in the end that wouldve been best but as i sad 100 200 blinds and the were about to raise again was getting shortstacked plus this guy was playing tight so my allin was more to get him out in case of magic river but ohwell it happend lets move on xD

     
  6-Dec-15, 08:27   #18
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2183
Posted by Skpmorita:
------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:



this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots




1) doesn't matter a jot whether the villain played it wrong or right. Hero opened utg with a poor hand and this is a losing play over the long term.

2) I don't know what stakes you play, I know my stakes and I know the guys I play against. I should remind you, the OP stated the villain had been VERY tight. How could he even think he was ahead.

3) I didn't read the hand wrong, I discussed every street. The river doesn't matter a single jot. What matters is how the hand plays on each hand.

I am not defending villain, I am saying the Hero played badly. All you did was rant really, which wont help OP get better at all or understand his mistakes.

Just because he was ahead, does NOT mean the hero played it correctly. By even posting the results, he has skewered (sp?) your thinking. What he should have done is not posted villians hand.

If you didn't know what the villians hand was, and you saw someone bet into a VERY tight villain, I am fairly sure you would be agreeing with me.

Being results orientated is a terrible way to learn poker Tongue

------------
Posted by Skpmorita:
Posted by Serpang:
So sometimes in your lucky day you have to play crazy to win first place.


this is what is wrong with online poker player .
this statement literally gave me cancer

no offence to anyone , also i am not good poker player or not even decent
but poker does depend on luck but it doesn't mean you play 'crazy' because we are not Psychics and don't know what is gonna happen .
so all you can do is play your best and you should depend more on mathematics .

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending the stack sizes plus the tournament format ..
but to call when you were 2% to win and you risk a lot of your stack , just because you were ' feeling lucky' that's just retarded

So much wrong with this post, maybe I will get round to replying properly later.

But, it literally gave you cancer? Really? When does your chemotherapy start?



------------
Posted by arrow-knee-:
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Did you really have to bloat the pot with one pair type hand post-flop out of position on a relatively scary board texture?
You could have taken a path to a cheap show-down by investing a bit smaller amount (40% to 60% of the pot) on flop and just check/calling on turn and river.

Your opponent's flat call with 64o is just awful, I have to add.
Terrible.


in the end that wouldve been best but as i sad 100 200 blinds and the were about to raise again was getting shortstacked plus this guy was playing tight so my allin was more to get him out in case of magic river but ohwell it happend lets move on xD



I will reply to your other post later as heading out to see Santa later but seeing as this is a quick one can I just say your thinking is wrong.

If the guy is playing tight and has still called you twice, you are going to be behind his range nearly every single time. And that mean shoving into him when you are behind is a losing play.

Sorry dude, but you DID play it badly. You can listen and learn and discuss properly and learn from it, or you can keep doing the same things over and over and over again.

Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is insanity Smile

Post hands, but do NOT post results, and I promise you the feedback you will get will be invaluable

------------
Posted by Skpmorita:

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending




In a poker game, to be able to get to the big playing places you need to win quite a double ups.

If you are pushing in with only 50%, then you are gonna invariably bust way more than you need to.

------------
Posted by arrow-knee-:

im sorry but i hve to call b******t here this makes no sense you leave out so many thigns so your story is true


You can call bs all you want, it wont change the fact that 1) you played the hand badly and 2) if you don't recognise that you will continue to lose money

Posted by arrow-knee-:
1. that you hate to raise minum is your problem i think its a normal play instead of rampaging all in go play bingo


min raise is a horrid play in just about every form of poker. This isn't opinion, this is well known and well studied. But to put it in prospective for this hand. You min-raised UTG with Ace and a weak kicker. And by doing so, you gave odds for plenty of other people to join the party, making it even less likely you will be ahead. Sure, when you win you will win a bigger pot, but most times you will lose. You know, AT v 64 is only a 63% shot to win aipf. You are never gonna make money out of that play

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2. as you see the blinds are 200 400 the average here is about 8 to 10k i believe i make the small bet under the gun wich is not a poor move as you make it out to especially with A 10 he is in middle position he calls 400 6632 is his stack i give that calling 400 in is not much but then he cals a raise of 1660 wich is more then 25% of his remaining stack with bottem pair this is the point where he should have folded if he knows how to play poker he calls in again there is no straight nor flush chance for him at this point then the 7 drops his chances of hitting straight are out the window he knows this for the rest im just gonna copy skipmorita' s post


Forget what he should have done. It doesn't matter. What you need to focus on is what YOU should have done. You state he is very tight. You state he keeps calling. What exactly do you think he has? What do you think he thinks you have. I would put you on ace-high as played (hard to tell because you posted hands and results).
If you aren't pot committed on turn then that makes you play even worse. You bet preflop and let someone into a pot cheap. You pot bet on the flop and got called by someone you think is very tight. And then you still blow the rest of your chips with just top pair.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds


Not necessarily. It isn't a good play but its not as bad as you make out. Implied odds and all that. If he thinks you have AK or AQ and will pay him off when he hits, and IF he has a plan take the pot down later then its not as bad as you think.
Regardless, this isn't about his hand, it is about yours.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong


Yes, it shows you don't have a great hand.

Posted by arrow-knee-:

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots


No, its a bad spot to be in. That is completely different to a bad play. I don't know his stats so I cant say if its a bad play. I can however say that just because you were ahead, doesn't mean your play was any better than his. In MOST cases you would be behind and yet you kept betting into him. That is why your play is bad.

Posted by arrow-knee-:icequeen even though your comment makes no sense i wish you the best of luck in the tables on the tables and under the tables

arrow-knee- Big Smile


I wish you luck too. I am trying to help even though by helping you be a better player its -EV for me Tongue

Let's be clear though, me posting what I am is way more useful than anything anyone posts saying stuff like 'oh man you got so ul, the other guys sucks etc'

Even if you disagree, you have had to think about a hand that you basically posted to rant. That can only be helpful, I hope you see that.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
ps: please explain this one i cant understand how t f you came to this conlusion

you pot bet, which showed weakness


Because of the line you took.

You probably would bet more with a better hand than just AT, or you may have call/raised (preflop). Regardless, at no point does it look like you have a strong hand. Then a pot bet (with rubbish which lets be clear, you DO have rubbish), smacks of desperation.
What you actually said to your opponants is 'I have a poor hand and I want to end the hand here and now, I don't want it to go to showdown'. Which is fine if you DO want people to call but you didn't, you bet to make people fold and that showed.
You represented a poor hand when you had a poor hand. The fact you were ahead changes NOTHING about the result.


Edited by IceQueenAce (Sunday, December 06, 2015 @ 09:12 GMT)


     
  6-Dec-15, 11:58   #19
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3028
Posted by IceQueenAce:
Posted by Skpmorita:
------------
Posted by IceQueenAce:



this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots




1) doesn't matter a jot whether the villain played it wrong or right. Hero opened utg with a poor hand and this is a losing play over the long term.

2) I don't know what stakes you play, I know my stakes and I know the guys I play against. I should remind you, the OP stated the villain had been VERY tight. How could he even think he was ahead.

3) I didn't read the hand wrong, I discussed every street. The river doesn't matter a single jot. What matters is how the hand plays on each hand.

I am not defending villain, I am saying the Hero played badly. All you did was rant really, which wont help OP get better at all or understand his mistakes.

Just because he was ahead, does NOT mean the hero played it correctly. By even posting the results, he has skewered (sp?) your thinking. What he should have done is not posted villians hand.

If you didn't know what the villians hand was, and you saw someone bet into a VERY tight villain, I am fairly sure you would be agreeing with me.

Being results orientated is a terrible way to learn poker Tongue

------------
Posted by Skpmorita:
Posted by Serpang:
So sometimes in your lucky day you have to play crazy to win first place.


this is what is wrong with online poker player .
this statement literally gave me cancer

no offence to anyone , also i am not good poker player or not even decent
but poker does depend on luck but it doesn't mean you play 'crazy' because we are not Psychics and don't know what is gonna happen .
so all you can do is play your best and you should depend more on mathematics .

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending the stack sizes plus the tournament format ..
but to call when you were 2% to win and you risk a lot of your stack , just because you were ' feeling lucky' that's just retarded

So much wrong with this post, maybe I will get round to replying properly later.

But, it literally gave you cancer? Really? When does your chemotherapy start?



------------
Posted by arrow-knee-:
Posted by Tony_MON7ANA:
Did you really have to bloat the pot with one pair type hand post-flop out of position on a relatively scary board texture?
You could have taken a path to a cheap show-down by investing a bit smaller amount (40% to 60% of the pot) on flop and just check/calling on turn and river.

Your opponent's flat call with 64o is just awful, I have to add.
Terrible.


in the end that wouldve been best but as i sad 100 200 blinds and the were about to raise again was getting shortstacked plus this guy was playing tight so my allin was more to get him out in case of magic river but ohwell it happend lets move on xD



I will reply to your other post later as heading out to see Santa later but seeing as this is a quick one can I just say your thinking is wrong.

If the guy is playing tight and has still called you twice, you are going to be behind his range nearly every single time. And that mean shoving into him when you are behind is a losing play.

Sorry dude, but you DID play it badly. You can listen and learn and discuss properly and learn from it, or you can keep doing the same things over and over and over again.

Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results is insanity Smile

Post hands, but do NOT post results, and I promise you the feedback you will get will be invaluable

------------
Posted by Skpmorita:

what i mean is you should always call when you have 50+% to win .. i hate when people say i have big pair but i "feel" an ace is gonna come so i am gonna fold .. you can fold sometimes depending if you wanna survive a bubble or something but not just because you know you gonna lose ..
depending on some situations you can call with 40% or even less .. it is reasonable , depending




In a poker game, to be able to get to the big playing places you need to win quite a double ups.

If you are pushing in with only 50%, then you are gonna invariably bust way more than you need to.

------------
Posted by arrow-knee-:

im sorry but i hve to call b******t here this makes no sense you leave out so many thigns so your story is true


You can call bs all you want, it wont change the fact that 1) you played the hand badly and 2) if you don't recognise that you will continue to lose money

Posted by arrow-knee-:
1. that you hate to raise minum is your problem i think its a normal play instead of rampaging all in go play bingo


min raise is a horrid play in just about every form of poker. This isn't opinion, this is well known and well studied. But to put it in prospective for this hand. You min-raised UTG with Ace and a weak kicker. And by doing so, you gave odds for plenty of other people to join the party, making it even less likely you will be ahead. Sure, when you win you will win a bigger pot, but most times you will lose. You know, AT v 64 is only a 63% shot to win aipf. You are never gonna make money out of that play

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2. as you see the blinds are 200 400 the average here is about 8 to 10k i believe i make the small bet under the gun wich is not a poor move as you make it out to especially with A 10 he is in middle position he calls 400 6632 is his stack i give that calling 400 in is not much but then he cals a raise of 1660 wich is more then 25% of his remaining stack with bottem pair this is the point where he should have folded if he knows how to play poker he calls in again there is no straight nor flush chance for him at this point then the 7 drops his chances of hitting straight are out the window he knows this for the rest im just gonna copy skipmorita' s post


Forget what he should have done. It doesn't matter. What you need to focus on is what YOU should have done. You state he is very tight. You state he keeps calling. What exactly do you think he has? What do you think he thinks you have. I would put you on ace-high as played (hard to tell because you posted hands and results).
If you aren't pot committed on turn then that makes you play even worse. You bet preflop and let someone into a pot cheap. You pot bet on the flop and got called by someone you think is very tight. And then you still blow the rest of your chips with just top pair.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
this is so wrong in many levels
1*calling any raise even if it is min from early position with 6 4 off is bad bad play , unless from late position / or defending your blinds


Not necessarily. It isn't a good play but its not as bad as you make out. Implied odds and all that. If he thinks you have AK or AQ and will pay him off when he hits, and IF he has a plan take the pot down later then its not as bad as you think.
Regardless, this isn't about his hand, it is about yours.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
2*betting pot shows weakness ? in some cases but with their stacks .. it is obv top pair with good kicker .. there is nothing wrong to bet pot with top pair top kicker .. make the draws pay you off
3*he was ahead all the time , you read the hand wrong


Yes, it shows you don't have a great hand.

Posted by arrow-knee-:

i don't understand why people defending these ***** guys
he had bottom pair no kicker no draw and he called all-in bet against top pair top kicker
IT IS BAD PLAY .. there is no need to find explanations for these idiots


No, its a bad spot to be in. That is completely different to a bad play. I don't know his stats so I cant say if its a bad play. I can however say that just because you were ahead, doesn't mean your play was any better than his. In MOST cases you would be behind and yet you kept betting into him. That is why your play is bad.

Posted by arrow-knee-:icequeen even though your comment makes no sense i wish you the best of luck in the tables on the tables and under the tables

arrow-knee- Big Smile


I wish you luck too. I am trying to help even though by helping you be a better player its -EV for me Tongue

Let's be clear though, me posting what I am is way more useful than anything anyone posts saying stuff like 'oh man you got so ul, the other guys sucks etc'

Even if you disagree, you have had to think about a hand that you basically posted to rant. That can only be helpful, I hope you see that.

Posted by arrow-knee-:
ps: please explain this one i cant understand how t f you came to this conlusion

you pot bet, which showed weakness


Because of the line you took.

You probably would bet more with a better hand than just AT, or you may have call/raised (preflop). Regardless, at no point does it look like you have a strong hand. Then a pot bet (with rubbish which lets be clear, you DO have rubbish), smacks of desperation.
What you actually said to your opponants is 'I have a poor hand and I want to end the hand here and now, I don't want it to go to showdown'. Which is fine if you DO want people to call but you didn't, you bet to make people fold and that showed.
You represented a poor hand when you had a poor hand. The fact you were ahead changes NOTHING about the result.



you surely put some work in your keyboard

Attached ImagesNotime.jpg

     
  6-Dec-15, 12:26   #20
  0 
bowie1984 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 32 (M)
Posts: 4440
Posted by arrow-knee-:
Posted by StheP:
Posted by vic75:
This hand last night from 888 cash game table AA vs KQ suited i am surprised nothing got smashed had outs on the river Angry Evil Aww crap! Aww crap!

I dont know why are you complaining... that things happend... today I got AA hit on flop A guy had TT and hit on river broadway.... put odds on flop I had something like 98% because he needed running broadway cards or running T...

i mean i know it happens i just dont understand this guy was playing tighter then a virgin and we were 300 peeps off the bubble,
then he does this and gets rewarded xD ohwell its a freeroll indeed i just cant comprehend it lol Aww crap!

U mean he played out sh1tty hands in a freeroll? Like others say get used to it...

     
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