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  28-Mar-16, 22:20   #1
AA Preflop vs 3 or more players ? 0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
i just had a lil discussion (to short due to dislike eachother Big Smile ) about AA all-in preflop vs 3 or more players.
lets say its about 45-55% win chance. i know some have the illness googlitis and can find out the proper percentage, or whoever doesnt feel comfortable/or isnt specific enough.

if you play 1.000.000 time the same hand, your win (50%) = by 3 players, mean 3x their stack á $100 = $150.000.000.
you lose the other 500.000 hands á $100 = $500.000. math so far so good. (attention, everything is approximatly Big Smile )

mainly i play offline. unfortunatly i do not even think that i get in 50years of play so many AA dealt. so math = fuk it. because no one give´s me even the security to win 50% of my AA´s. who knows, the first 8.000 times (and probably i wont get more than 8.000 AA dealt in my life) i only win 12% or only 6%, who knows.
and online... hmm here i doubt aswell that i get so often AA´s dealt or that all the time 3 peeps will go all-in and so on. in this case = math sux too. cos i dont live 12.500 years.

so i wonder how many would call AA preflop allin vs 3 or more players Confused

i my self... well, offline i do that as good as never. because its a "coinflip", i do not gamble. rather play psychological.
online, yes "sometimes". why? because i play online for less money. get a few more hands dealt. and sometimes if i have won 6-7 buyins then im like "ok, why not..lets gamble for fun".
but normaly, nope i definatly wont do that, except im drunk Shock

so guys.. tell me. im curious.

     
  28-Mar-16, 22:25   #2
  0 
arsenej1 

Joined: Mar '09
Location: Canada
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 3020
If i were to call allin in any situation it would be with AA...and to answer your question id call allin with AA aginst 5x allins without hesitation. Youll win some youll lose some but at end of day the goodthing about online poker is another tourney is just a click away. I myself am a gambler though so it would take an awfully good tourney to make me hesitate.

     
  28-Mar-16, 22:33   #3
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Here it is.... as simply as I can put it.... Yet probably not simple enough for you...

You're on a table with 5 other players... you hold AA in the BB... every player has $1,000

Situation 1
Folded to SB, who shoves - your odds, on average are around 80% to win $1,000... every time you make the call, you win $800

Situation 2
Folded to Button, who shoves, SB calls... no your odds are around 70% to win $2,000... every time you make the call, you win $1,400

Situation 3
Calling 3 players = 60% of $3,000... $1,800 every time

4
Calling 4 players = 50% of $4,000... $2,000 every time

5
40% of $5,000... $2,000 every time....

It's NEVER right to fold aces preflop (barring satellite/bubble implications)

And extra opponents only ever make it MORE profitable to call.

     
  28-Mar-16, 22:59   #4
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
i get your point yout85. math is great and your right - in science it works 100% anyways.
but its still all theory. like said, i could lose the first 900 out of 1000 hands. i probably win some day the other 2000 hands but untill then im broke lol.
i personaly find, math isnt the alpha and omega in poker. not every pokerpro trusts in math but in his skills.
like i explained... i do not live that long nor do i get so many aces dealt that i can rely 100% on math "completly". when i play offline, i definatly wont call that allin.
and im sure if i search hard on internet, i will find somewhere a video showing phil hellmuth folding aces preflop vs 3 players Big Smile

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:02   #5
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3117
When you are against 2 all in players your percent should be aroumd 40, maybe 45 percent...
Now AA should be profitable in long run to shove, no matter how many players go all in, its best hand pre flop and has the most chance to win. In long run shoving aces is profitable no matter how much players call...
Now you should shove them always in cash games, tournaments and smaller sit and go.
Now where would I fold them... well if it is some high buy in tournament like scoop, wcoop, and all that high events, main or high roller and I am near bouble and there is like you said 3 players or more went all in, and I dont cover them, than I would fold, for sure!!!

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:10   #6
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Find me that video of Hellmuth folding aces, and I'll post a new video of an extremely surprised man, hacking off and eating both his testicles.

Good players are good because they understand the math.... and understand making + ev calls is what makes you money... not luck or bad luck.

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:15   #7
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
phill hellmuth? ah.. im sure ill find a video, np lol

im lookin forward to see a man eating his testicles Thumbs Up

i disagree. not every poker pro use math. the majority use more psychology skills than math. they do not play the cards, except for tv shows maybe. its about to get to know your opponent. or its 50/50...


     
  28-Mar-16, 23:17   #8
  +1 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
....I'd love to play against you.

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:37   #9
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
your highness ! pride comes often before a fall. Blink

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:52   #10
  0 
yout85 
Joined: May '12
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 31 (M)
Posts: 2016
Wanna play best of 5, heads up, play money?

...loser donates $20 to a random BRM member...

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:53   #11
  0 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 1631
It's not a coin flip, because a coin flip only doubles you up; here you get 4x your stack or more.

Besides you should consider the range of the other players, willing to go all in. It wil be highly polarized, to AA, KK, QQ, AK, so your chances are much better than they would be against 3 random hands.

Are you worried about your tournament life? I.e playing "scared poker"? Because I can't think of any rational reason to fold... (Other than the satellite bubble thing Yout already mentioned)...

     
  28-Mar-16, 23:54   #12
  0 
demodawggy 

Joined: Feb '12
Location: Canada
Age: 56 (M)
Posts: 5682
... Big Smile< In answer to the question in the title of this thread... It depends on how much I care about the game I'm in,....the lesser the buy in,...the less I care and will ALWAYS shove it regardless if the whole gd table is in on it...!

... Big Smile< With a higher buy in of say $5 or more,....and /or if leaderboard points are at stake for placing well,...then I will consider folding them depending on position,...and who's likely to call after you... Thumbs Up

... Big Smile< But let's face it,...it's ALWAYS hard to fold pocket pointies preflop ANYtime...!!!

... Big Smile< ...AND from time to time when you're feeling REALLY FRISKY,...and if you're lucky and the stars line up for you,...there's NOT much more satisfying in poker than to knock out 8 other players in ONE shot and take ALL that loot...! It's happened to me a few times,....one minute you have a stack,....and the next minute it's NINE TIMES BIGGER...!!!! Big Smile Thumbs Up

     
  29-Mar-16, 00:09   #13
  0 
StheP 

Joined: Oct '14
Location: Serbia
Age: 26 (M)
Posts: 3117
@teddykgb you think hellmuth is good poker player now?

------------
Posted by yout85:
Wanna play best of 5, heads up, play money?

...loser donates $20 to a random BRM member...

Can I bebthat random member Tongue

     
  29-Mar-16, 03:48   #14
  0 
Serpang 
Joined: Jan '10
Location: Indonesia
Age: 53 (M)
Posts: 1477
Posted by T3ddyKGB:

i disagree. not every poker pro use math. the majority use more psychology skills than math. they do not play the cards,



Agree, when they bluff or heads up
Smile
I believe they also use feeling/intuition combine with math, see 'long ball' explanation at little green book or bluff vs bluff Phil Ivey.
But it not every hand we have feeling/intuition so just math can help us to take decision

     
  29-Mar-16, 06:25   #15
  0 
IceQueenAce 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 2196
I like you teddy


but you are way way wrong.

     
  29-Mar-16, 07:04   #16
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
If it is plus ev, it is plus ev. If you are not better than the rest of the players, by a large margin, it is a insta-call. Of cause the swings will be bigger than in hands against only one opponent. But in the long run ...

     
  29-Mar-16, 07:28   #17
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 515
meh its always 50/50, either u win or lose

     
  29-Mar-16, 07:56   #18
  0 
shokaku 

Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 6233
Posted by vsemoje:
meh its always 50/50, either u win or lose

Nope.

It is either they win, or u lose. Blink

     
  29-Mar-16, 09:15   #19
  0 
vsemoje 
Joined: Feb '13
Location: Slovenia
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 515
from my perspective is either i win or lose Big Smile

     
  29-Mar-16, 14:47   #20
  0 
T3ddyKGB 

Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1816
Posted by yout85:
Wanna play best of 5, heads up, play money?

...loser donates $20 to a random BRM member...


yesterday you didnt even like to speak to me, now you wanna play vs me? hope one day your not gonna ask me to marry you Blink
actually im not that excited to proove or find out who´s better. im confident enough, guess so you are..
but hey why not...maybe a new beginning between us two Blink i just played alot at weekend or rather said too much. now im busy with other things and next time i get to play poker ill be on PS for serious play. i wont forget it...either you remind me in a few weeks or i ask you if you have time/fancy to play.



------------
Posted by StheP:
@teddykgb you think hellmuth is good poker player now?

------------


i was just kidding as i said im gonna find a video about phil hellmuth, cause hes a p***y or least plays like one.
frankly said, i do not follow his pokercareer to judge about him. not sure if im up to date and regardless if i like him or not, he is still the one who won the most breclets?! so yes, he gotta be good. i personaly like negreanu - nice and funny fellow.


------------
Posted by shokaku:
If it is plus ev, it is plus ev. If you are not better than the rest of the players, by a large margin, it is a insta-call. Of cause the swings will be bigger than in hands against only one opponent. But in the long run ...


i agree shokaku. but...can you still speak about long run? you dont get that often the chance to play against 3 players all-in, and variance can be huge (!). thats why i said coinflip.


------------
Posted by demodawggy:

... Big Smile< But let's face it,...it's ALWAYS hard to fold pocket pointies preflop ANYtime...!!!



no question. even on turn/river. took me a few lessions and a couple years untill i learned to fold Big Smile

Edited by T3ddyKGB (Tuesday, March 29, 2016 @ 15:05 GMT)


     
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