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Supercomputer Libratus outwits humans in ‘Brains vs. AI' poker rematch

Tags: Al, Daniel McAuley, Dong Kim, Jason Les, Jimmy Chou, Libratus, supercomputer
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2017 by "T".
It is the norm that before a match begins, seasoned poker players will scrutinize videos of their upcoming opponents - to learn their playing style and analyze previous poker hands. However, this match is totally different - it would be against a supercomputer designed to play poker. Jason Les, Dong Kim, Jimmy Chou, and Daniel McAuley - four people categorized to be amongst the best poker players[...]   Read more » Supercomputer Libratus outwits humans in ‘Brains vs. AI' poker rematch

  2-Feb-17, 13:48   #1
Supercomputer Libratus outwits humans in ‘Brains vs. AI' poker rematch 0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 9806
well yeah this has already been discussed quite a bit in the forum already before this news became public news, pinotte had a couple of quite popular threads going on and StheP provided the link to the interview with the players invovled- funny enough no one had an interview with the libratus, wonder what it had to say about the outcome?

     
  2-Feb-17, 14:32   #2
  0 
Marble42 
Joined: Dec '11
Location: Serbia
Age: 30 (M)
Posts: 87
Where can I download the software? Big Smile Jokes aside, this is some pretty impressive stuff, at least when it comes to online poker. Next step? Put a bug in the ear and communicate remotely with the software and win big money Tongue

     
  2-Feb-17, 19:56   #3
  0 
bowie1984 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 5363
Honestly this was one instance so it's pretty far from being representative. I would recommend that we deal with the consequences after this AI beats humans the second, third, fifth time as well. One occurance just isn't enough of a sample to make bold statements about it, but definitely an eyebrow raiser. For sure.

     
  2-Feb-17, 23:46   #4
  0 
pajalnick 

Joined: Mar '11
Location: Russian Federation
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 4099
we are faced with the disappointing reality - computer intelligent person ... and if it still be able to add some emotion close time of the creation of Frankenstein .. or terminator .... interesting future awaits us .. probably

     
  3-Feb-17, 02:09   #5
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2558
I would be interested to see how this computer plays but to be honest no decision is perfect in poker... Sometimes the right decision is just not gonna give you the right result and there's nothing one can do about it. The sample would have to be really huge and against a lot of different humans with different style to really say it is better than human poker players. Besides if you're playing like it's play money the dynamics of the game change... and I doubt a machine knows the value of money.


     
  3-Feb-17, 09:29   #6
  0 
doubletop777 
Joined: Mar '11
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 48 (M)
Posts: 6516
This sort of thing fascinates me and i am not surprised that the computer won. If you play for long enough then decision making comes to the fore and you do not rely so much on luck

     
  3-Feb-17, 15:35   #7
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 9806
yeah bowie actually raised a valid point- we have to see more of these kinds of battles to get a brighter= more representative picture, i still think that with time ai will only get better and humans will end up being beaten even more. not the thing i was expecting a couple of years back- i though there is no way for a bot to beat some random drunk dudes at NL holdem, so much unpredictability here, fcukin hard to imagine what's the code behind this bot...

     
  3-Feb-17, 16:21   #8
  +1 
marqis 

Joined: Sep '10
Location: Netherlands
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 1644
I doubt there is any way online poker can survive. AI will end it sooner or later. Probably a few people will make a lot of money at our expense before then...

     
  3-Feb-17, 22:10   #9
  0 
Gerimantas 
Joined: Jan '17
Location: Lithuania
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 923
Yea just like I said im other post about this libratus ai I can also say hrre one more time- it is really good program and it is only been made few days before the start of the challenge, a lot of opportunities to make it better and even more hardrr for human players to fight against, better just play on casino's

     
  3-Feb-17, 22:33   #10
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 11740
It makes you wonder if any of the programmers is using it in poker rooms online
and if the rooms have the ability to recognize it, since i think that most if not all poker rooms
are not allowing bots.
Pretty sure that there are players are running them though Smile

     
  3-Feb-17, 23:36   #11
  +1 
pinotte 
Joined: Jun '13
Location: Canada
Age: 74 (M)
Posts: 3700
Don't forget that libratus was running with a computer that have a 9.5millions cost. this computer was not bought to play poker they used it just for an experience of AI.

However i agree with marqis the online poker will not survive and with the speed that it goes in this business it will be sooner than later.

We all better find a place t play live. Smile Smile Smile

     
  4-Feb-17, 01:51   #12
  0 
bowie1984 

Joined: Apr '12
Location: Hungary
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 5363
Posted by pochui:
i still think that with time ai will only get better and humans will end up being beaten even more. not the thing i was expecting a couple of years back-...

The thing is these AI's don't need to eat, drink, sleep or get up from the computer to stretch their legs or scratch their balls - means the amount of workload they (computer body) could handle without a hassle is tremendous compared to humans.
That alone could be enough to beat us right away.

     
  4-Feb-17, 18:41   #13
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 9806
not so sure about online poker disappearing due to the rise of AI, at least all of it. definitely high stakes online poker is not safe, but never wasn't in the first place, mostly grinders who are gonna be affected and those who will feel the least change is the casual players who are chasing fun and look at poker just as another form of casino game...

     
  5-Feb-17, 12:14   #14
  0 
Gerimantas 
Joined: Jan '17
Location: Lithuania
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 923
I am hoping that poker online will mot disapear in the future as some people posted here, there will be players who do not really care about ai, bots and nust want to play some pomer, relax, spend their time battling other players, they not really think about who they are playing with, they just like to play... just like me.

     
  5-Feb-17, 19:25   #15
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 11740
It wont disappear in the near future, but it will be even more limited than it is today.
Ad this due to all the laws and regulations.
Still far from the day that an AI, can have a serious impact in poker.
Bott you may see but AI i doubt...

     
  5-Feb-17, 19:49   #16
  0 
Tony_MON7ANA 

Joined: Mar '14
Location: Japan
Age: 43 (M)
Posts: 6334
Artificial Intelligence may even sniff out new types of chicanery.

Source: How Artificial Intelligence Could Catch Stock Market Cheaters

     
  6-Feb-17, 09:10   #17
  0 
pochui 

Joined: May '08
Location: Lithuania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 9806
yeah just as mober pointed this out i also had it in the back of my mind: politicians might kill online poker a lot quicker than AI.
oh and a few thoughts on AI:
* so far it does well on heads up games, wonder how it can cope with full table play
* me ponders that 2-3 dudes colluding vs AI can easily beat it
* what about one ai playing vs other ai... will we see battle of the ai's in the future, and it's not too bad to the room owners, since number of hands will be monumental and so will the rake
* i wonder how ai is doing vs the players in "drunk russian" mode

     
  7-Feb-17, 15:00   #18
  0 
IndianAce1 
Joined: Feb '10
Location: India
Age: 27 (M)
Posts: 31
So using my own human intelligence the future should be determined simply by who has the better AI, because if the AI surpasses humans in everything than humans don't need to think anymore just use AI to think instead of them because that would make better choices. So we automatized even our thinking, but than we would simply do what the AI tells us, becoming mindless "machines" in the process completely turning around the table. Do we really want that? That people with more wealth should be that much "smarter"? Up until now there was some justice in that that we were born with somewhat equal, but from that point it wouldn't be true anymore. We wouldn't be able to play poker or anything. We only need to compare scpecs to know who would be the winner. I like to think I think it is the core of our humanity, even with our mistakes. I don't think we need general AI at all. We need systems that are capable to solve specific complex problems and we have to carefully evaluated every application.

     
  7-Feb-17, 20:28   #19
  0 
TheMachineQC 

Joined: Apr '10
Location: Canada
Age: 28 (M)
Posts: 2558
Posted by pinotte:
Don't forget that libratus was running with a computer that have a 9.5millions cost. this computer was not bought to play poker they used it just for an experience of AI.

However i agree with marqis the online poker will not survive and with the speed that it goes in this business it will be sooner than later.

We all better find a place t play live. Smile Smile Smile


Very good point Pinotte.

For a computer to be truly intelligent, it needs a LOT of hardware. Right now computers mostly process information faster than humans, they're not smarter. Just faster at calculating and taking rational decisions. But also a lot less creative, curious and they can't really learn new stuff unless you tell them to.

But the AI industry is about to change. In Montreal there is a lot of research on this and investors coming from everywhere to invest in these A.I. that are able to learn. Who knows how it will be in 20, 50 or 100 years if there are no nuclear wars because of Trump and the chinese Blink

     
  7-Feb-17, 20:37   #20
  0 
Mober 
Joined: Mar '09
Location: Greece
Age: 40 (F)
Posts: 11740
That is an excellent point pinotte has there and i didnt notice it till i read machine's post.
With a cost like this for a computer to run the program, you might as well keep the money
and say you have 10 millions in your pocket Smile
That of course if you were planning to play real money games with it Smile

     
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