Joined: May '08
Location: Brazil
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 49
Hi fellow mobsters!
In order to further improve my game and discipline, I've started writing an application called "The Rangefinder", currently, I'm coding it as a standalone app with a built-in hand replayer (XML based) and also a simulator, but my objective is to code it to use along with Full Tilt nbsp;poker at the very least.
So, what's "The Rangefinder"?
It's an app to help you pinpoint the cards your opponent(s) are more likely to hold at any time, keeping track of the betting action (Pre-flop, flop, turn and river) and considering the following factors:
The amount of betting The opponent action (Your opponent flat called, reraised?) The opponent table image or status quo (Calling Station, Fish, TAP, LAP) The stack sizes Position
Also, the program will give you a score, based on his plays, if the guy is likely on tilt, bluffing, semi-bluffing, c-betting, and so on.
I'll keep you guys informed, hope I can finish a public alpha test by the end of the year, so we can discuss it and improve it. I'm also considering coding it as an add-on for PokerTracker.
I plan to release it just for the Bankroll Mob and Railbirds communities only.
Edited by KidRitalin (26 November 2008 @ 18:44 GMT)
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 11
I'd love and hate seeing this if you know what I mean. I can see some problems arise by using this program. Since Poker is a game of skill with an element of luck and the psychology of the player, the algorithm used for giving even semi-usefull information will be really complicated. Incase it works as planned, I could see it getting black listed pretty fast by FTP.
I think you are better off making a poker odd calc using the standard algorithm and reading/saving hand history. You could add a neat graphic design showing the real odds using only math, and have another calculator, which also take table playingstyle, and the players history in consideration - This enable us to get a real expected value, and a guess of the expected value using what you know about the player. So we would end up with 41% win chance ( according to math only) and next to it the win chance consindering the table playing style/player history to calculate a guessing win chance, like 56%
Joined: May '08
Location: Hungary
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 212
This program is must be useful, but I like to play just alone, without programs. It's better playing using just my brain. I won't play like a machine. This wouldn't be so exciting, I think. But do what you like...
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Denmark
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 11
Not playing like a machine is asking to lose money. Do you call 93o often?
Edit: What I mean by this should be easy to understand. Not folding the hands your suposed to, playing your position and calculating your outs, you are bound to lose in the long run.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Germany
Age: 49 (M)
Posts: 2025
i bet there´s alot users who would like to use it, by i my self hope such programs will be forbidden in the near future (as it already is on some pokerclients). this has nothing to do with skills. where is the fun ? of course some might say this is all about money but to be successfull at something you have to have fun doing it. i see it coming....one day we all will have on every single poker client programs running that bet/call/raise/fold and think for us while we went out to eat a pizza i only speak for my self...so gl with it, guess you´ll have alot buyer tho.
Joined: Oct '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 64 (M)
Posts: 2193
Posted by MrCyrudan: Incase it works as planned, I could see it getting black listed pretty fast by FTP.
This is why programes like SharkScope & PokerEdge are on the band list at Pstars and Full Tilt.
I did try one of the programes last week but consertraed on the program more than the game so played worse than I normely do, so no help to me what so ever.
But if it do's what you say I'm shore it will sell
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1418
Posted by T3ddyKGB: i bet there's alot users who would like to use it, by i my self hope such programs will be forbidden in the near future (as it already is on some pokerclients). this has nothing to do with skills. where is the fun ? of course some might say this is all about money but to be successfull at something you have to have fun doing it. i see it coming....one day we all will have on every single poker client programs running that bet/call/raise/fold and think for us while we went out to eat a pizza i only speak for my self...so gl with it, guess you'll have alot buyer tho.
I agree, poker is a test of mind, instincts and stratagy, (your stratagy) and everyones stratagy is different (if only by the barest measerable margin) allthough i do believe the kid only means to use it as a guide in which case the more information the better, but in saying that you also have to take into account the variables, which include, fatige, confidence, how the players getting on with his whinging mrs, what he had for breakfast, how his team played on the weekend, what his plans are for the night and so on, there are so many variables that can affect a players behavier besides bad beats. in my opinion.
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Posted by intentcity4:
Posted by T3ddyKGB: i bet there's alot users who would like to use it, by i my self hope such programs will be forbidden in the near future (as it already is on some pokerclients). this has nothing to do with skills. where is the fun ? of course some might say this is all about money but to be successfull at something you have to have fun doing it. i see it coming....one day we all will have on every single poker client programs running that bet/call/raise/fold and think for us while we went out to eat a pizza i only speak for my self...so gl with it, guess you'll have alot buyer tho.
I agree, poker is a test of mind, instincts and stratagy, (your stratagy) and everyones stratagy is different (if only by the barest measerable margin) allthough i do believe the kid only means to use it as a guide in which case the more information the better, but in saying that you also have to take into account the variables, which include, fatige, confidence, how the players getting on with his whinging mrs, what he had for breakfast, how his team played on the weekend, what his plans are for the night and so on, there are so many variables that can affect a players behavier besides bad beats. it may work if your playing a bot, which is really all it is in my opinion.
Edited by intentcity4 (27 November 2008 @ 11:47 GMT)
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 54 (M)
Posts: 342
Well it sounds a great idea to me and I would definitely be interested in trying such a program.
It also sounds like a tough program to write - but that's not my problem.
If it did work well then Full Tilt and Stars may well wish to ban it but other sites are much more lenient. Poker Edge uses a stealth mode which allows it to go undetected so that maybe an option too.
Joined: May '08
Location: Brazil
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 49
This isn't a tool you should rely alone, poker is a game of incomplete information, the more, the better. Also, actually I think this app wouldn't be banned.
Because:
1. PokerTracker isn't banned at any site.
2. This app will be converting statistical data gathered in PokerTracker into "human" data. Think of PT as a math aid, and Rangefinder as a "feel" aid. Quick example for rangefinding (I'll not exemplify now the other stuff I'm still implementing, like taking in consideration if the dude folded to a c-bet, attempts to steal and so on, it's a nightmare to put it on words and code, lol): After 30 hands, PokerTracker have the following data from a player:
VPIP: 15 PFR: 10 AF: 2.0
In this case, a guy with VPIP 15 is kinda tight, so he might be opening with premium hands only and in position, maybe he's opening with JT on the button, so, next, let's take a look at his PFR (Pre-flop raise) combined with AF (Agression Factor), with 10 and 2.0 respectively, the guy is kinda agressive, but he might have completing at the SB or checking at BB instead of raising, thus playing marginal hands at these positions.
3. Things that only the rangefinder will do: Does someone lost a big pot? Let's take the example of the same guy above, he was playing tight, but he lost a pot with AA while you were drinking coffee, rangefinder will warn you that the guy might be on tilt and thus raising with any crap like 72o.
4. I'm currently working on the add-on version for PokerTracker, It'll be completely stealth, since The Rangefinder would gather data from PokerTracker only, thus not "talking" with your poker client.
Sorry for any mispellings or crappy exemplifications, I was in a hurry.
