Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Dont say that we did nothing to help you during the war when we did send you everything. Including troops. About TRUE CROATS FROM HERCEG BOSNA. Did you forgot that they were smuggling croatian oil to serbs in bosnia because they did not have steady supply of oil. What did serbs do with that oil, nothing just attack those who gave them the oil. Who was the person behind it? You forgot that too i guess. They, your parents, did not teach you about that for sure. But they thought you to hate all the serbs and bosniacs. Did those GREAT CROATS FROM HERCEG BOSNA made more damage in peaceful times than the war did. War damage estimate is in range from 2-5 billion dollars and how much did those true self proclaimed biggest croats did damage after the war? How many companies have those croats ruined, how many of were left jobless. How many of you are receiving right now as we speak croatian social welfare support while having double citizenship in Croatia and Bosnia using social welfare in both countries, while at the same time working illegally in Croatia? And your statement that WE ALL IN CROATIA ARE TITOBOYS AND GIRLS proves what i said that if you say something which is reasonable and true about the situation are automatically labeled as being less croats not to say worse. And why is that, because HALF of herzegovina is living illegally in croatia. And another thing, you all true croats from herzegovina are also great catholics. Please compare me idea you are pushing and what church and the pope stands for. We not so croats and catholics living in not true croatia say that you are greater catholics than the pope itself.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
i see that we have different views one this problem so me putting a other post would only make this treath longer that why i wish not 2 post any thing one here any more because we have 2 different idea and that could go one for ever. so i respect u and ur standing and always will respect other croats because the are my people no mather how leftwing there ideas are. hope that this will end the little fendeta between us because we as a people should not be fighting against each other. ps were in croatia are u guys and girls from if i may ask?
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
I don`t see this as "vendetta" as you call it. I see it more as lively discussion. I am not some SDP supporter or liberal, for your info I voted for HSP on last elections although most of their members share some of your views but at least they are not one of those who support the idea of giving up our sovereignty to others and are proclaiming to be nationalist and I see myself as nationalist socialist, but not fascist or ustasha or nazi. Nationalist idea is not exclusively related to fascism and socialist idea is not exclusively communist related. What is wrong or as you call it left winged if I want this country to help those who need it or that syndicates possess more influence over crooked capitalists who see all of workforce as their slaves. Will that benefit us the people more and by people I mean Croats, I don`t care how Slovenia will handle this. You can`t say that killing or throwing out all other nationalities from Croatia will benefit Croats, look what is happening at the moment. Big international powers have seeded this hatred long time ago and where did it get us. I don`t say that we should all reunite in some 4th Yugoslavia or something like that, but that hatred was seeded by great Imperial powers some 200 hundred years ago and I see no point in prolonging it further. Because of this politics Croats in Bosnia are marginalized in all spheres making it hard to both Croats in Croatia and Bosnia. Imagine this situation which was possible at the time wrong decisions were made by Tudjman. What if Croats really allied itself with Bosniak`s? With combined forces of both armies those crowds of drunk chetnics could be driven out easily out of Bosnia, remember what happened in military action called "Summer 95" that took place in Bosnia prior to final war operation "Storm" in Croatia. Combined Croatian forces and Bosnian army threw them out of the large portion of territory in matter of days. There were more military actions performed in Bosnia prior to this one but none of them could be glorified as victory because some stupid and arrogant criminals decided to kill innocent civilians. Now back to what could happen. If Tudjman aligned itself with Bosniak`s early in the war truly, You, Croats from Bosnia could seek independence through referendum and other political means because Dayton would never happen. This could potentially lead to unification of Herzegovina and Posavina with Croatia. Now, Croats in Bosnia are stuck where they are with no real hope that would ever happen, not to mention that Posavina was given to Serbs as did most of the liberated territories during the military actions in Bosnia as part of the Dayton agreement. Who enforced such solution, new big international power which see fitting to their needs that this region remains unstable. There is not a single Croat benefiting from fascist ideology and never will, we are not big power that will put us at the apex of power if fascists ideology begin to gain foothold in the world, we will probably be one more time minor country that will have to obey some ultimate power.
I cannot see how being a slave to some power is nationalist and patriotic idea. I would really like that all of You in support of Ustasha and NDH rethink your views from more realistic position and that is the main purpose why I am so eager to prolong this discussion. As I said before I don`t care about Ivo and other daily trivia, but Croatia ONLY, how left winged that is.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
oke nice view but do not like 2 continu this discussion because as stated we can go one for ever and ever. so i respect ur views and wish u the best op luck wish ur neo-yugoslavia views one a multi-etnichal croatia the best of luck.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Posted by ljuban: oke nice view but do not like 2 continu this discussion because as stated we can go one for ever and ever. so i respect ur views and wish u the best op luck wish ur neo-yugoslavia views one a multi-etnichal croatia the best of luck.
I don`t say that we should all reunite in some 4th Yugoslavia or something like that
When it comes to what we can be proud of, Croats can be proud with numerous brave people who stood up against oppressors whether they tried to conquer us through military means or prosecuted us for being Catholics. People like you have nothing to give to this country and are only detracting efforts made by brave and righteous people from our past.
I hope You stay in Netherlands and wish you best of luck there and your family. We, true Croats, do not need people who think they are patriots because they would like to kill or do harm to someone. Those are not our values and I would really like to see You replace your imprinted way of thinking with one of your own.
Good Luck at the tables. Here is one song You should bear in mind while talking how big and true Croat You are. This one is performed by "Tudor Singers" coming from Cardiff, Wales and it was filmed during their performance in Vinkovci.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
i never said i wanted 2 kill any one, just said i dont think a multi ethnical croatia is the best idea,because that why the first war started, we all where in one country and that cost a lot of lifes,you think im some kind of butcher but im not i would never kill someone because he or she is of a different faith, just saiying that a country without the serbs or bosniaks, is better for both sides,because it will be only a mather of time before the next war starts and people are going 2 be saying look at them teh savages, i mean u dont see pakistan and india trying 2 be one big country , because there the same people, some thing just will never work no matter how many times u try.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
But neither India or Pakistan are ethnically "clean" countries. War started for much more complicated reasons. Ethnicity was used as excuse for something else and it is not that relevant at this moment. We must not forget who we are, what we are and what we are prepared to do for our country but do it smart so "we don`t run like geese`s into fog" and we already did first stupid move that made us lose part of newly gained independence even before the war was over and it had nothing to do with ethnicity or the war itself in direct way. Soon we will probably give away the rest of our independence by joining the EU.
Whether You like it or not but Milosevic played Tudjman big time. Serbs got their territories in Bosnia, Croats did not. No one is pushing Serbs around for expelled Croats from Vojvodina but we get pushed around for Serbs from Krajina, although their own forces made them go away. It is international politics where Milosevic did much better job than Tudjman and brutal force got us on worse than starting position. We don`t need ethnically clean country to be able to maintain peace. We just need to maintain power in it and to protect her interests not only on military level but on political level too and do it smart.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
i do not agree i think that if u let them stay in the country mabye not in ten years mabye not in 20 year but they will become a problem u give a them a finger they wil take your whole arm. better 2 prefent a problem then 2 cure it.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 34 (F)
Posts: 33
And whats your advice how to make them go from Croatia? Tell us how you would solve that "problem"? But then, for you is ok that all Serbs make all Croats go from Serbia?
Joined: Aug '08
Location: Australia
Age: 51 (M)
Posts: 1418
easy lads, if you all moved to Australia you wouldnt have to put up with this s**t, we have the most multy cultural country in the world and we dont have any drama"s what so ever, and you get most of the poker bonuses.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
@intentcity Normally you don`t have problems. I have relatives in Australia and they don`t complain about anything except climate. Take US for example, there are no issues with minorities which are not seen as a threat, only those minorities which are denied their rights cause trouble and I would too if I was in their place. We don`t have troubles of any kind with other minorities in Croatia, truth is that gypsies have their way of living and behavior but not all of them, those who have jobs and are trying to make normal life don`t go around and steal copper from statues and stuff, know few gypsies and besides different skin color you could not tell a difference between them and other normal people.
@vriza tara may be young but it is for us older and wiser to teach youngsters how to live, including to learn them how to think with their own head. What would I give to my children if I learn them to hate other nationalities or anyone for that matter, or not teaching my children to think on their own. They will only get the burden of living in constant hatred and make them stupid by enclosing their minds making them easy picking for those who think on their own. I`ll compare it with slaves, slaves were and still are conditioned from their childhood that master is their owner. Same thing you do with your own children if you deny them their freedom of thinking by imprinting their minds with some backward ideology, not entirely understood by you in the first place, and freedom of thinking is, in my opinion at least and some other more famous people, ultimate freedom that cannot be taken away from anyone not willing to give it up. This goes to all sorts of things not only this particular so called "patriotism" case.
@ljuban Maybe is not constant value it is variable and value of a variable is determined by constants. Would You try to cause trouble in Netherlands? If so ask yourself why would You do that. Look at your immediate neighborhood, in Belgium there are Flemish and Walloon regions with different people living in it, but they were that way almost forever and are just now talking about some form of independence from each other. Same thing here, who can drive us from our country that we occupy for centuries by using political means, unless we do something stupid and let them, and there is really small possibility that it can be done with brutal force, it has almost never been done throughout history and only time this brutal force proved successful was against native people in North America. Take a look at the Jews, they did not even have a country for thousands of years they could call home country but their culture survived to this day because they did not let it die or be absorbed by some dominant culture. Do they think on their own, most of them do, but they don`t forget who they are and are pretty much successful in making us all remember who they are without some "ethnically clean country" ideology, only through successful international politics and various institutions. It is always been and it will always be mind game, no maybe`s or if`s, single constant in this equation. Days when those who started wars could die in the battlefield are long gone and only handful of them have fallen in the battle since time when tribes were seen as societies, most of them died from old age or less likely as a victim of assassination. Any true and successful leader see some ideology as a leash and a whip, tool to rule his subjects. EDIT: Take Marko Perkovic Thompson for example, music is copied from Iron Maiden songs and texts are based on ideology and "blind" patriotism and he uses that ideology you were thought of from your childhood to boost sales of his records and to fill stadiums with music that have no real art or uniqueness in it. Really, for those who don`t know, at least half the songs have Iron Maiden made music themes in them. That is why so many electric guitars in folk related music.
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
as i stated before our view are 2 much a part, and therefore useless 2 keep one talking in my opion ure a neo-communist libro pasifist how things that all humans are good at hart well the aint and never will be u can keep on posting views of a dream utophia world that will never be because as long as they are in our country problems will be present,because there have been 2 much things in our history 2 forget over a cold beer. im not trying 2 cause trouble u are with ur lets forget about every thing and be friends view, u got 2 bee a realist about somethings 2 much has happend 2 be the best of friends.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 34 (F)
Posts: 33
"Tara" je starija od Ljubana za 2 godine, "Tara" je u biti njezin decko koji se prijavio pod njenim imenom jer nema osobnu. imam 24 god. tako da nisam tako mlad kao sto mislis. I reci mi radi cega sam "mladi idiot koji nezna sta prica"? Te boli istina o hercegovcima ili?
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
You cant talk to brainwashed automatons even if you wanted to. If you asked him anything related I am confident he will start talking some phrases he heard and adopted as his own. I know too many hard headed hercegovaca. You can talk to them but they just don`t want to get out of the box. He is saying that I am, wait i have to copy paste that because i dont know what that mean, "neo-communist libro pasifist" because he probably picked up those phrases somewhere and everyone who don`t think that we should get rid of every non Croat from our country is exactly that. I don`t know taro have you watched latinicu where that old lady from canada was guest. You cant reason with them, gori su od bosanaca po tvrdoglavosti. Who cares what they think as long as they don`t try to sell that way of thinking as my own. I`ll try to teach as much as possible but I don`t hold my hopes to high, hope they`ll pick up some education along the way living as emigrants before they return.
Let me quote as good party member and communist our long lost comrade James Douglas Morrison: "....You are all a bunch of slaves, let everybody push you around, what are you gonna do about it, what are you gonna do about it..."
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Netherlands
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 218
u 2 are realy stuck in the past, al u talk about is some pan-slavic concepts that will never work u dream of a big super southslave state were every one gets along very nicely wake up man history has proven that i doesnt work. but u 2 just cant believe that u wanna give love a second chance. u think im some kind of rasist well im not im a realist i like 2 deal with fact and not some dreams
Joined: Jan '08
Location: Croatia
Age: 47 (M)
Posts: 1308
Not a single word on creating or wishing to create some form of ex Yugoslavia. If you are realist look at the facts, most of important ones are presented in previous posts.
