Joined: Nov '08
Location: Romania
Age: 33 (M)
Posts: 49
BLackJack played with perfect strategy gives the house a 1-2% edge so in the long run you will lose money. The only way you could gain the edge is by counting cards but it's only a small edge
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by bughime: BLackJack played with perfect strategy gives the house a 1-2% edge so in the long run you will lose money. The only way you could gain the edge is by counting cards but it's only a small edge
Yep. But house edge for most variants of blackjack is around half a percent.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Latvia
Age: 70 (M)
Posts: 27
I think there's a little confusion here. I understand a little about BJ and odds etc. so I'll try to clear up any misunderstandings.
1) Counting cards is worthless online because the 'cards' are always 'shuffled' after every hand. So no hand is ever dealt with cards removed and the chances of high or low cards remain balanced.
2) For optimal results you should always play 'basic strategy' BJ. That means that you exercise no free will, you just follow the chart. However the strategy varies for different house rules, number of virtual decks etc. I have not checked the chart above, so I don't know if it's optimized for Betvoyager. If you want to play there, I suggest you check their BJ rules then go to the WizardofOdds site and download the correct chart for those rules.
3) Playing basic strategy does not, as stated above, give the house an edge. The house edge is controlled by the rules of the game at that house (e.g. no. of decks, whether you can double after split, whether dealer hits soft 17 etc. etc.). Basic strategy shows you the optimal play for those rules. If that results in a house edge, basic strategy is not to blame - the house rules are to blame.
4) I can understand cynicism that Betvoyager do offer true zero house edge blackjack, but the fact is that even with zero edge they'll still win overall. BJ is a high variance game so you'll encounter big winning and losing swings. The house bankroll is bigger than yours, so eventually you'll hit a downswing to zero and have to reload and repeat the process. I think Betvoyager have realized that they don't actually need that tiny half percent edge as they can attract more customers without it, yet still win overall.
5) If you still want to play BJ, then at least be sensible about it. There are some terrible house rules out there that are very disadvantageous to the player. Don't just sign-up for the biggest bonus, then spew away all your money. Carefully research the rules and check the house edge with the WizardofOdds before playing. Beware of bonuses. They will tie you to huge wagering requirements that could turn into a nightmare, especially if the casino decides to accuse you of bonus abuse (which they don't have to define). My personal choice is to avoid bonuses and play unrestricted with zero edge, but then I'm not really a gambler.
Joined: Apr '08
Location: Argentina
Age: 45 (M)
Posts: 748
Posted by SteveCut: Playing basic strategy does not, as stated above, give the house an edge. The house edge is controlled by the rules of the game at that house (e.g. no. of decks, whether you can double after split, whether dealer hits soft 17 etc. etc.). Basic strategy shows you the optimal play for those rules. If that results in a house edge, basic strategy is not to blame - the house rules are to blame.
I found this a bit confusing...BJ always has an edge for the casino, what basic strategy does, for each of the house rules, is reduce this edge, although never reaching zero or going positive for the player
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
Posted by teteban: I found this a bit confusing...BJ always has an edge for the casino, what basic strategy does, for each of the house rules, is reduce this edge, although never reaching zero or going positive for the player
Depends on the set of rules. There are some versions with a tiny advantage for the player.
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Belgium
Age: 34 (M)
Posts: 686
Already tried those kind of tables and already lost some money so i dont think you'll be winning on a long term. Great for u if u can win, but things can happens really fast, so be careful !
Joined: Feb '09
Location: Latvia
Age: 70 (M)
Posts: 27
Posted by shokaku: Depends on the set of rules. There are some versions with a tiny advantage for the player.
Exactly. The house edge depends entirely upon the set of rules. The basic strategy describes the optimal way to play given those rules.
Shokaku's right. There have been instances of the advantage being in the player's favour. e.g. Casino Club (CC) used to offer a single deck game that was actually positive expectation for the player. What happened then was that lots of players started automating their play with bots in order to take advantage of it. Then CC banned bots. Then CC removed the single deck BJ, but still retained the bot ban. Then they started to use the bot ban to wrongfully accuse players of bot use and deny then their winnings. This was a ridiculous charge because CC at that time only offered negative expectation games, so automating play with a bot would only cause you to lose faster! (Search for "bot" and "Casino Club" on Casinomeister if you're interested in the story.)
Nowadays I'm not aware of any positive expectation games. The best seems to be the BetVoyager zero edge versions. Not sure if Betfair still have zero edge? When they did, I didn't play there because of the severe bet size and range restrictions. But I think with Betvoyager you can bet as small as €0.01? I'm too lazy to check, but I know for a fact that you can bet just €0.01 on roulette there!
