Joined: May '09
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 191
Hello everyone
I am in middle position with QQ, with one of them being a diamond. No body raises before me ,and I decide to raise three times the big blind. Blinds are 80/160 and my stack is 4200.
The guy on the button decides to call me (his stack is around 4600). Small and Big Blind folds. Pot is 1200.
On the flop comes Ad 9d 3d
I decide to bet halfpot - leaving 3200 in my stack. He clickraises me and I conclude the following: He is probably ahead with a pair of aces, but how strong is his kicker? With an AK he probably would have reraised me. AQ and AJ are other possibilitys. I conclude even if I am behind I have around 11 outs (2 queens and 9 diamonds - since I find it very unlikely he hold a K or Kd) approximately 44 %. So I decide to come over the top and move all-in, thinking he could fear I already had a flush or put me on aces to with a higher kicker. I also did consider if he could have a flush already decreasing my chance quite much. Considering he doesn't hold Kd I assume though that another diamond would at least give me the best flush - only seven outs (28 %). Combined with backdoor fullhouse possibilitys.
But like I said I decided to push him all-in and unfortunately he calls and turn around A9 showing two pairs. But at least I still have 44 % chance. Sadly his two pairs holds and I go out. I suppose I went out as nr. 25 or something in a 45-man SNG - so nowhere near prizes.
How would you have played the hand?
Thinking backwards I might suggest myself to check-call him after the flop. That way I get off cheap if I miss the flushdraw on turn and he bets a significant amount of chips. Of course that also depends on how big his bet would be after the flop. A fullsized potbet could mean a fold for me. The more I am thinking about it this should have been how a played the hand. But I would like to know what all your guys think?
Joined: Nov '07
Location: Belgium
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1289
His raise indicates at least he has A with high kicker or at least 2 pair He protects the hand by raising and want to isolate U from drawing the flush.
Just fold, easy laydown. There are too many hands that can beat U. A K with K of diamonds, 2 pair, sets and gets a lock with a FH. Lay it down since ur stack was healthy and U were playing against an almost even stack
Joined: May '09
Location: Denmark
Age: 37 (M)
Posts: 191
Do you mean check-fold after the flop or fold after his reraise?
Because in case of the latter I don't believe I can fold to a click-raise? Call there and check-fold on turn in case of a missed flushdraw must be a minimum when I chose to already raise after the flop.
Joined: Nov '07
Location: Belgium
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1289
valuebet first, then see what happens In this case he raises U. muck it before seeing the turn imho. Don't be the maniace still chasing ur fdraw. and u are only drawing to second nuts.
In case U check it and he bets out, U can see the turn . its a different approach. Smallball and minimum loss to make the fold eventually on the turn.
The problem i also have is :
your QQ is not connected other ways with the boaord. It made a difference if the bpard was more str8 connected as well for U.
Posted by Flangel: valuebet first, then see what happens In this case he raises U. muck it before seeing the turn imho. Don't be the maniace still chasing ur fdraw. and u are only drawing to second nuts.
In case U check it and he bets out, U can see the turn . its a different approach. Smallball and minimum loss to make the fold eventually on the turn.
The problem i also have is :
your QQ is not connected other ways with the boaord. It made a difference if the bpard was more str8 connected as well for U.
This imho is great advice from an obviously sound player. Chasing 2nd nut flush draws when ur beat by so many hands, layin them q's down shouldnt be that hard with an ace on board. Shite knows i've done it plenty but in this scenario i think i woulda layed it down- still in reasonable enough shape in the tourney.
Joined: Nov '08
Location: United States
Age: 58 (M)
Posts: 155
"valuebet first, then see what happens"
Well that is new, valuebet a draw??? I think you mean semi-bluff. Valuebet is trying to get a lesser hand to pay you off. Or do you mean continuation bet?
What's a clickraise? Is that a check raise? If your opponent checks that flop to you, check behind. Betting here serves little purpose that can't be accomplished on the Turn. Plus, you open the option to get checkraised, which is what you DO NOT want here. Chances are very high, the free card will benefit you more than opponent.
Once the Turn is a brick, your decision should be much easier. As you checked behind, spoiling villlain CR plans on the flop, they need to bet now(or should), and that bet size will determine whether you want to chase to the River. If they are dumb enough to check again, since you missed, check behind, again the free card more likely to help you than them.
This may seem passive, but is actually pot control, and you have the type of hand and flop to exercise pot control instead of stacking off, imo.
Joined: Nov '07
Location: Belgium
Age: 40 (M)
Posts: 1289
This hand is a combo of a value bet / semi bluff and C bet
U can look it in all directions and perspectives. And why would U even cal the turn if its Chk-Chk postflop, and Chk, bet - ?? => why chasing the river.
If ur playing a FR tourney with already 18 cards out of the deck , 3 burned and still chasing the river? On this board u are only drawing to second nutsflush, no str8 draws. if the str8 came in to town, I might consider the river
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6787
Posted by klopmand: Well that is new, valuebet a draw??? I think you mean semi-bluff. Valuebet is trying to get a lesser hand to pay you off. Or do you mean continuation bet?
As the preflopraiser on an A high board this is a bet. But i would not call that a value bet.
Posted by klopmand: What's a clickraise?
A minraise. OP bets half the pot, that's 600 in chips. So opponent raises another 600.
