Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 256
Ok guys so i think we can all healp each other out by taking advice and giving of course! forums is a great training ground for many that cant afford coaching ect, hopefully people will post thier hand historys and talk thru hands ect and then everyone can 'chip in' and tell us thier views to change peoples approach to a game or a hand. i will start with this one its a old one but i love it for many many reasons.
Ok so heres the situation, 24 man SnG over at PKR it was, this was bubble play for the FT place, Now the prev hand i had stole blinds with AQ preflop with a 4x raise so i go this hand,
Table #17866282 - Tournament #10977871 Table #1 Starting Hand #868328984 Start time of hand: 04 Jul 2009 12:07:54 Last Hand #868328289 Game Type: HOLD'EM Limit Type: NO LIMIT Table Type: TOURNAMENT Money Type: TOURNAMENT CHIPS Blinds are now $75/$150 Button is at seat 1 Seat 1: icarus1626 - $3,405 << no info just joined table Seat 2: gaztheyorkie - $1,980 Seat 4: AussieSnypa - $2,300 <<<UBER AGGRO Seat 5: MissKitten81 - $3,145 << semi tight Moving Button to seat 2 AussieSnypa posts small blind ($75) MissKitten81 posts big blind ($150) Shuffling Deck Dealing Cards Dealing [7h 7s] to gaztheyorkie << yay! icarus1626 folds gaztheyorkie calls $150 << ok so PP here i decide to call a raise up to $600 any higher im commited AussieSnypa folds MissKitten81 checks << good stuff icarus1626 bounces his chip. Dealing Flop [Ad 7d Ah] <<< WOW nice one MissKitten81 bets $150 << bluff? becuase she checks on BB gaztheyorkie calls $150<< i have FH lets see where it goes icarus1626 spreads his chips. Dealing Turn << ok icarus1626 performs his twirl. MissKitten81 bets $300 << ok im now pretty sure she has an Ace gaztheyorkie calls $300 Dealing River <<< no threat MissKitten81 bets $450 <<< yep she has a set gaztheyorkie says good game! gaztheyorkie raises to $1,380 (all-in) << lets get max value here MissKitten81 calls $1,380 gaztheyorkie shows [7h 7s] MissKitten81 shows [4s As] gaztheyorkie has Full House, 7s over Aces MissKitten81 has Full House, Aces over 4s MissKitten81 wins $4,035 with: Full House, Aces over 4s <<<LOL Seat 1: icarus1626 - $3,405 Seat 2: gaztheyorkie - $0 Seat 4: AussieSnypa - $2,225 Seat 5: MissKitten81 - $5,200 End Of Hand #868328984
Ok so yep i had her on an ace but wasnt sure about the kicker i should have know that it would be weak by the check pre flop.
Now heres the thing i could have gone all in on the flop but would you lay down a set to an all in? course you wouldn't i limped pre flop so i didnt appear to have a hand if it was the other way round im insta calling so all the chips would have gone in anyway.
the only think i could have done in my opinion is 1. fold pre 2. raise pre 3. flat call the river
ok tell me how you would have played out this hand as each card comes and why
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
my 2 cent:
fold or raise pre; i dont like the limp. why? its just so obvious what you try to do there (beside the fact that you dont get the odds to setmine, hence to the stacksizes imo) and against a raise or shove you will very often have to give up your hand. also it makes opponent define his hand.
as played: raise the flop and shove the turn IMO. why? you get a lot of value from an ace like that. also i dont like giving free cards. omaha habbit
EDIT for the whys
Edited by umarplus (28 September 2009 @ 19:41 GMT)
Joined: Mar '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 44 (M)
Posts: 6714
Yer raise pre. Then on flop, well your gonna lose id guess shes gonna call but at least she might think you got a better kicker, re-raise on flop, now your(would be) commiting your self so may as well just put it all in there. No one is folding IMO. unlucky.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by B1gfoot:
Then on flop, well your gonna lose id guess shes gonna call but at least she might think you got a better kicker, re-raise on flop, now your(would be) commiting your self so may as well just put it all in there.
as played, betting the flop allin seems a bit extreme to me. that would be a 3times pot bet, right?
and we do want her to stick around i think. i would be happy to commit my stack on that flop with 77.
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by B1gfoot: No cause im raiseng pre.
lol yeah me too (considering the bubble situation might as well have been a fold though. i mean, what do i want with 7s postflop, where i am most likely out of position?)
as played my shove would have come on the turn (if opponent wouldnt have pushed the flop anyways)
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
77 on the button with 13BB in the stack. A halfway tight player in the big blind. This is a raise all the time. With your low stack i would even push against most players.
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 256
ok so did anyone see what i had done in the prev hand? becuase i stole the blinds effectivly with AIR i felt a raise pre would have got a call and if it was Axx i wouldnt know where i stood on the flop this and my actually odds of hitting a set or better on the flop i felt safer limping against the SEMI tight player and also with agrro player yet to play/fold
Joined: Dec '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 41 (M)
Posts: 256
Ok so AQ AK AJ is NOT a made hand IMO ok its a calling/preflop raise (blind stealing) hand but without hitting the board 22 is beating you. therefore i class it as a stealing hand
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 42 (M)
Posts: 1118
Posted by gaztheyorkie: Ok so AQ AK AJ is NOT a made hand IMO ok its a calling/preflop raise (blind stealing) hand but without hitting the board 22 is beating you. therefore i class it as a stealing hand
yes AK is high card ace. still it has a big winning chance. and even more important: you dominate hands like AT or KQ. your pair of deuces never dominates anything...
Joined: May '08
Location: Germany
Age: 59 (M)
Posts: 6786
You can't wait for aces with just 13BB. So you have to play those lousy AK type of hands from time to time. With those you are ahead of all unpaired hands, flip against most pairs and are a dog only to AA and KK.
Joined: Feb '08
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35 (M)
Posts: 1886
I can't believe you said yay when you saw the 7s. middle pairs are horrible hands to play around the bubble. When you raise on the button, many players will see a steal and this is not the kind of a hand you can call a raise with. I think the best play is to fold pre-flop cos even though you're probly winning, you could be putting your whole tourney on the line even against 10 4. Blinds aren't that huge yet so going all in is a mistake imo.
However, I probly wouldn't have followed my own advice and once you get to that flop, there really is no escape. Chips are going in and either player will call at any stage. So ul.
I also agree that AQ is not stealing. I would rather raise with AJ, AK, AQ than 77. Hell I'd rather raise with 10J suited than 77.
even assuming the limp preflop, you shud raise the flop. either he is bluffing and you will take down the pot or he has a 3outer. having said that i dont mind your play except for the limp
and tell us thier views to change peoples approach to a game or a hand. i will start with this one its a old one but i love it for many many reasons. 
<< ok 
<<< no threat 
Dont get u sry?
